Green's MP accused of Shoplifting

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Ultimate Geek
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#3207037 16-Mar-2024 23:33

Handle9:

It’s not a pretty picture of yourself you are painting.

The price of her book shows how far she has fallen. Nothing else so you don't need to try and twist anything..

Kyanar

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#3207338 17-Mar-2024 21:55

Wombat1:

The price of her book shows how far she has fallen. Nothing else so you don't need to try and twist anything..

Is there a point where you'll stop beating the dead horse? At this point it's a bloody pulp on the ground.

You seem weirdly obsessed with just piling on this woman.

gzt

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#3207346 17-Mar-2024 22:15

The price of the book is not indicative of anything really. The Warehouse does have some good in-store-only clearances in books from time to time. I've been lucky once or twice. Thanks for the tip. I'll be sure to check for a copy next time I'm there.

quickymart

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#3207351 17-Mar-2024 23:28

Published 4 years ago, so hardly a recent title. I've seen The Warehouse do this with older titles all the time.

I imagine eventually Spare by Prince Harry will see some reductions in price as well (to be honest, it might have happened already; I haven't seen many copies of it out for sale lately).

Kyanar

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#3207408 18-Mar-2024 10:38

GV27:

More of a general observation than anything specific with Golriz herself but there's also the tendency to claim it's 'not appropriate to comment while it's before the courts', waiting for a verdict etc. and then conveniently deciding that's the point the conversation should end because there has been a verdict. There has to be an acceptable point for the discourse to actually take place at some point.

Otherwise you end up with a permanent state of incommunicado, which isn't exactly how accountability works.

I'm not sure where in the public you allege this tendency to claim that, because I've never seen it, and certainly not on this forum. I've seen police, businesses, government agencies, political parties claim it's not appropriate to comment while it's before the courts because for them, it's not appropriate to comment while it's before the courts, but I've never seen it in public forums such as GZ, Reddit. The most you'll usually see is a reminder that the person is alleged to have committed crimes not proven to have until a verdict is handed down (due to the possibility of the forum operator facing civil charges for defamation if the charges are proven false).

As to your second comment about accountability - that's literally what the justice system is. Members of the public talking amongst themselves about actions or alleged actions does not factor into accountability. Accountability in this type of case is the actions someone takes in response to their past criminal actions, and the actions the justice system takes in response. A bunch of Geekzone comments isn't accountability, it's just regular public discourse.

Rikkitic

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#3207421 18-Mar-2024 11:21

Kyanar:

I'm not sure where in the public you allege this tendency to claim that, because I've never seen it, and certainly not on this forum. I've seen police, businesses, government agencies, political parties claim it's not appropriate to comment while it's before the courts because for them, it's not appropriate to comment while it's before the courts, but I've never seen it in public forums such as GZ, Reddit. The most you'll usually see is a reminder that the person is alleged to have committed crimes not proven to have until a verdict is handed down (due to the possibility of the forum operator facing civil charges for defamation if the charges are proven false).

As to your second comment about accountability - that's literally what the justice system is. Members of the public talking amongst themselves about actions or alleged actions does not factor into accountability. Accountability in this type of case is the actions someone takes in response to their past criminal actions, and the actions the justice system takes in response. A bunch of Geekzone comments isn't accountability, it's just regular public discourse.

Actually, @Freitasm shut this discussion down until she was charged. Before then some people were just speculating. In a situation like this, people with agendas will jump in to try to score political points or bask in a little schadenfreude. A bunch of Geekzone comments or any other comments are not regular public discourse when used to put the boot into someone who hasn't actually been formally charged yet. This just feeds rumour and innuendo and mob mentality. Public sentiment can lead to injustice, and that has nothing to do with accountability.

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GV27

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#3207479 18-Mar-2024 12:07

Kyanar:

As to your second comment about accountability - that's literally what the justice system is. Members of the public talking amongst themselves about actions or alleged actions does not factor into accountability. Accountability in this type of case is the actions someone takes in response to their past criminal actions, and the actions the justice system takes in response. A bunch of Geekzone comments isn't accountability, it's just regular public discourse.

The idea of accountability is not limited solely to conduct that is criminal or arguably criminal.

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SaltyNZ

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#3207491 18-Mar-2024 13:05

GV27:

The idea of accountability is not limited solely to conduct that is criminal or arguably criminal.

So, again, what is it you want her to do which she has not already done? She has resigned and her career as an MP is over. So will her career as a lawyer be. She has plead guilty to the charges. Do you want her to be paraded down Queen Street for the people to throw rotten vegetables at like Cirsei Lannister?

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Kyanar

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#3207501 18-Mar-2024 13:27

Rikkitic:

Actually, @Freitasm shut this discussion down until she was charged. Before then some people were just speculating. In a situation like this, people with agendas will jump in to try to score political points or bask in a little schadenfreude. A bunch of Geekzone comments or any other comments are not regular public discourse when used to put the boot into someone who hasn't actually been formally charged yet. This just feeds rumour and innuendo and mob mentality. Public sentiment can lead to injustice, and that has nothing to do with accountability.

Valid point. My suspicion would be that it was the nature of the comments rather than the discourse itself that led @Freitasm to temporarily close the thread - as it's not something that I've seen happen very often.

However, contrary to aspersions by a certain individual he didn't leave the thread locked with a comment saying "thread's over now, she's been charged". The thread was unlocked so that discourse can continue - no-one has said that it's inappropriate to comment now she's been charged.

That said, some individuals in this discourse seem to be using it to throw virtual rotten tomatoes and put the virtual boot in rather than discuss the actual topic. It's totally unnecessary, I'm sure you'll agree it has nothing to do with accountability, and I'm surprised it hasn't gotten this thread locked for going off topic.

GV27

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#3207508 18-Mar-2024 14:01

SaltyNZ:

So, again, what is it you want her to do which she has not already done? She has resigned and her career as an MP is over. So will her career as a lawyer be. She has plead guilty to the charges. Do you want her to be paraded down Queen Street for the people to throw rotten vegetables at like Cirsei Lannister?

Seems like a bit of an over-reaction to the notion that the public that you represent(ed) in the House of Representatives should be able to express an opinion as to your conduct at some point, which is all I'm actually saying.

How you got from there to mob justice is a bit baffling. I certainly haven't suggested anything of the sort.

E: Let me be clearer - take Golriz out of the equation totally - nothing to do with her. Also, as an aside, I would hope that it does not cost her her career; generally professional societies are reasonably measured when it comes to this kind of thing. She wouldn't really touch the sides when it comes to conduct-unbecoming and solicitors.

sir1963

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#3207516 18-Mar-2024 14:13

GV27:

Seems like a bit of an over-reaction to the notion that the public that you represent(ed) in the House of Representatives should be able to express an opinion as to your conduct at some point, which is all I'm actually saying.

How you got from there to mob justice is a bit baffling. I certainly haven't suggested anything of the sort.

Then the easiest thing to do is "let it go" (as the song says).

She has destroyed her career(s), there is nothing that you, I, or anyone else can say that will change any of that. The courts will also sentence her.

She will struggle with employment for a long time and this will hound her for decades to come.
But the reality is, people also need to be able to get past what they (she) stupidly did and rebuild the best life they can, and I suspect for her that will mean a lot of mental health assistance .
She will probably have issues with overseas travel for some years too.
I would guess that she has lost some friends and acquaintances too and certainly lost respect with a number of others.

Over all the consequences for her are probably way more severe than for someone unknown to the public.

Wombat1

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#3207617 18-Mar-2024 19:35

I'm puzzled by the push to close this thread. While I respect the moderators' decision if thats what they want, isn't this all just part of political discourse? These threads are here for that purpose, after all. While political discussions can sometimes get heated, most participants here seem to be engaging in civil debate. If you're not enjoying the conversation, it might be best to simply move on. Personally, I tend to avoid other threads for this reason.

I find the current situation quite intriguing, and it seems many New Zealanders feel the same. The Green Party is facing significant challenges right now, especially considering what happened with Kiri Allan last year. It paints a rather grim picture. Some, like myself, find it almost comically embarrassing for them, which sparks further conversation, and hence why I come back here every day to read the updates.

freitasm

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Geekzone

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#3207622 18-Mar-2024 19:40

There was no request to lock this thread. All I see in the last page or so is the mention that this was temporarily locked earlier on until things were clarified.

Wombat1

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#3207624 18-Mar-2024 19:48

You are right, I am jumping to conclusions. Judging from many of the comments, however, I do feel like the majority on here would love to see it closed.

quickymart

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#3207627 18-Mar-2024 19:53

Wombat1:

The Green Party is facing significant challenges right now, especially considering what happened with Kiri Allan last year.

She was a member of Labour, not the Greens.

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