James Shaw resigns

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#3188852 31-Jan-2024 15:06

SaltyNZ:

The Greens have their largest caucus ever, and are the third largest party in Parliament. I mean, sure, I agree with you that it would be great if they had an absolute majority in their own right, but I think The AM Show might be a bit out of touch with "the general public".

I was just highlighting that my perception isn't an uncommon one.

I know you're winding me up suggesting that I think a Green majority would be a good thing. I obviously don't think that, but I do think there is a place in a coalition for a party that puts the environment first (they could never be majority because idealism needs to be tempered by reality). I just don't think New Zealand currently has such a party.

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#3188853 31-Jan-2024 15:10

Paul1977:

I know you're winding me up

how dare you sir i would never

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#3188856 31-Jan-2024 15:20

Paul1977:

I was just highlighting that my perception isn't an uncommon one.

I know you're winding me up suggesting that I think a Green majority would be a good thing. I obviously don't think that, but I do think there is a place in a coalition for a party that puts the environment first (they could never be majority because idealism needs to be tempered by reality). I just don't think New Zealand currently has such a party.

All political parties are based on idealism. With the climate issues environment first is realism.

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#3188859 31-Jan-2024 15:30

MikeB4:

All political parties are based on idealism. With the climate issues environment first is realism.

If only it were that simple. Everything has trade-offs, some of them very undesirable. There is no silver bullet.

Handle9

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#3188861 31-Jan-2024 15:36

Paul1977:
Handle9:

This trope got old a long long time ago.

Often things become tropes because there's a lot of truth to them. Just because an argument is old doesn't mean it's invalid.

It’s a trope because it’s almost always National supporters promulgating it because they want someone else to go into coalition with.

The same standard never gets applied to ACT, who will never go into coalition with Labour.

Wombat1

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#3189011 31-Jan-2024 23:07

Pretty dishonest of Shaw to have stood in a general election just 3 months ago.

gzt

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#3189012 31-Jan-2024 23:14

Shaw resigned as a Green Party co-leader. Shaw remains a member of parliament for the party he's a member of. It is not uncommon for leaders to resign after an election.

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Handle9

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#3189013 31-Jan-2024 23:17

Wombat1:
Pretty dishonest of Shaw to have stood in a general election just 3 months ago.

Did you say the same about English, Joyce and Findlayson in 2017/2018?

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#3189014 31-Jan-2024 23:28

gzt: Shaw resigned as a Green Party co-leader. Shaw remains a member of parliament for the party he's a member of. It is not uncommon for leaders to resign after an election.

He’s only staying on until the members bill proposing an environmental amendment to the bill of rights act comes to its conclusion.

quickymart

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#3189015 31-Jan-2024 23:31

Wombat1:

Pretty dishonest of Shaw to have stood in a general election just 3 months ago.

Right up there with Jonathan Coleman, eh?

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#3189108 1-Feb-2024 09:44

Wombat1:

Pretty dishonest of Shaw to have stood in a general election just 3 months ago.

I agree with that. Don't stand if your heart and mind is no longer in it e.g Dame Jacinda Ardern. There is more mana in being honest and not standing than wasting time and efforts of your supporters.

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#3189127 1-Feb-2024 10:27

MikeB4:

I agree with that. Don't stand if your heart and mind is no longer in it e.g Dame Jacinda Ardern. There is more mana in being honest and not standing than wasting time and efforts of your supporters.

I think that's a bit unfair.

Who here can honestly say they've never thought they were up to doing something for just one more go round and then found out that no, they really weren't. Golriz Gharhaman thought she was up for another 3 years of daily vile assault, rape and death threats - but she wasn't. For all you know her experience might have been what made up Shaw's mind.

Or maybe it was that before the election he knew that a new National government was not exactly going to be a friend of the earth but after the coalition agreements and 100-day plans were announced he discovered that actually, there was nothing further he could add in the face of a "plan" which consists of nothing but triumphantly destroying everything he spent the last 6 years helping to build. It certainly wouldn't be great for my motivation after all that time.

But, as you mention Dame Jacinda Ardern: having come to that conclusion, the best thing is to go immediately. Now whoever takes the job has essentially an entire parliamentary term to come to grips with the job before having to fight another election.

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#3189223 1-Feb-2024 12:20

@SaltyNZ I agree with many of your points and it must be soul destroying for James Shaw to see that the NACTNZ coalition's only real plan is to slash, burn, drill and untie all the gains made without any real positive ideas for the future. I guess I am disappointed that he wont be there to try an counter the three ring circus that is the current attempt to have a government. I gave my party vote to NZ Green a decision that was influenced by the continued presence of James Shaw.

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#3189231 1-Feb-2024 12:37

MikeB4:

@SaltyNZ I agree with many of your points and it must be soul destroying for James Shaw to see that the NACTNZ coalition's only real plan is to slash, burn, drill and untie all the gains made without any real positive ideas for the future. I guess I am disappointed that he wont be there to try an counter the three ring circus that is the current attempt to have a government. I gave my party vote to NZ Green a decision that was influenced by the continued presence of James Shaw.

If there is anyone in the party who is happy about it, it's a tiny minority.

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elpenguino

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#3189259 1-Feb-2024 13:50

Paul1977:

SaltyNZ:

The environment is absolutely the top priority. Just look at the credentials of some the new MPs this term - Lan Pham, Steve Abel, Scott Willis. The social justice aspect comes about because (apart from being the right thing to do) you can't have the environmental change without it. The poor will disproportionately pay the price of the catastrophes that we have locked in through past inaction, and they are also the least able to make changes to mitigate.

It appeared to me that most of the reasons they wouldn't consider a coalition with National were more to do with non-environmental ideological differences. Seemed to be cutting off their nose to spite their face to me. If the environment was truly a top priority then being part of the government also needed to be a top priority.

The credentials of their new MPs don't mean much when they're on the outside looking in.

It appears to me that the reason they wouldn't consider a coalition with National is that they have see what happened to the Maori Party who did choose a coalition with National and then got deserted by their supporters. Turns out that for the Maori party voters, the minimal gains of coalition with National weren't worth the maximal losses of having National in power.

The credentials of your MPs don't mean much if you never get elected to parliament.

I guess we're all waiting for these legendary blue-green people to come into the light and provide the best of both worlds.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

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