good housing article

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BDFL - Memuneh
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#3199276 23-Feb-2024 20:27

tweake:

its seams to have been buried pretty quickly.

tweake:

eracode:

Maybe it has not gained traction because it seams the writer is more interested in trying to showcase her flamboyant but shallow writing style rather than providing a well-reasoned argument. It’s on Stuff, innit - so who is going to take her seriously with that style on that platform?

not really. its pretty common for any anti-real-estate stories to disappear. i'll bet there is a whole line of pro real-estate stories around the corner.

The article is still available.

What do you mean by "buried"? Disappeared from the front page? If that's the case, I'm afraid other news seem more important or attract more readers.

Either way, I don't think there's a conspiracy by anti-anti-real-estate stories people controlling the newspapers.

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#3199298 23-Feb-2024 21:14

freitasm:

The article is still available.

What do you mean by "buried"? Disappeared from the front page? If that's the case, I'm afraid other news seem more important or attract more readers.

Either way, I don't think there's a conspiracy by anti-anti-real-estate stories people controlling the newspapers.

i did see it pop back up.

certain "hot" articles disappear from stuff. thats nothing new, they have been doing that for a long time. ie there is no links to it from any of their web pages. often you can google it if you know what to look for. thats an old publishing trick (often done with tv adds), publish it where no one will see it. but because they published it they have fulfilled their obligations.

there just seams to be a few topics that disappear quickly or it could be just those that i notice. but then they also run a lot of shill articles. i wouldn't call it conspiracy, its just business. especially when its probably their biggest customer.

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#3199368 24-Feb-2024 09:22

Then again, it could just be Stuff's new! improved! website update that seems to be working so well, they've lost 20% of their web traffic since rolling it out.

Now if house prices dropped 20%...that would be something I would be interested in reading about, not an opinion piece that says "prices are too high". Thanks, but please tell me something I don't already know.

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#3199398 24-Feb-2024 11:29

quickymart:

Then again, it could just be Stuff's new! improved! website update that seems to be working so well, they've lost 20% of their web traffic since rolling it out.

Now if house prices dropped 20%...that would be something I would be interested in reading about, not an opinion piece that says "prices are too high". Thanks, but please tell me something I don't already know.

the disappearing practice has been around for a long long time. not sure if other news sites do that as i haven't looked for it, i would not be surprised that they did.

they have stopped comments on a lot of articles, no doubt thats also reduced engagement.

if you really want a bad article, check out the recent rents around the globe article https://www.stuff.co.nz/money/350188717/do-renters-get-better-deal-overseas . comparing auckland rents to a few cheery picked cities that are well known for there own housing crisis. cause you know rents are about to be pushed through the roof. they need to make people think its normal.

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#3199404 24-Feb-2024 11:55

A website might remove or move an article for a variety of reasons. The article has low engagement, it's not news, it's an opinion piece, an error was found.

In this case the article still exists just not linked. Stuff posts hundreds of stories every day (so much that I unfollowed the RSS feeds back when they had them).

You shouldn't think everything is a conspiracy.

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#3199414 24-Feb-2024 12:26

freitasm:

A website might remove or move an article for a variety of reasons. The article has low engagement, it's not news, it's an opinion piece, an error was found.

In this case the article still exists just not linked. Stuff posts hundreds of stories every day (so much that I unfollowed the RSS feeds back when they had them).

You shouldn't think everything is a conspiracy.

i didn't say it was a conspiracy.

they usually keep stories on for quite some time and new ones eventually push them off, as per normal. stories with errors typically get fixed, i've seen a few of those. delinking stories, sometimes within hours, and they just happen to have similar content. sure it gets low engagement, its not on long enough to get engagement.

but sure its normal for media not to show content they paid for 🙄

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#3199419 24-Feb-2024 12:46

This is the second time I'm mentioning Hanlon's razor in a few minutes. I think it applies to this thread:

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

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#3199476 24-Feb-2024 13:24

freitasm:

This is the second time I'm mentioning Hanlon's razor in a few minutes. I think it applies to this thread:

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

in this case its not malice or stupidity, its just "good business". no different from "gib" etc.

tho their kids story on the sea glider, ie using kids to push big business, is the most malicious thing they have done. i don't think you can explain that away with stupidity as an excuse.

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#3199590 24-Feb-2024 21:07

freitasm:
This is the second time I'm mentioning Hanlon's razor in a few minutes. I think it applies to this thread:

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

More than likely it’s not even stupidity. If the article, which by Verity Johnson who writes lifestyle commentary, got fairly low engagement then it makes sense for them to move it off the home page for new content which may generate more clicks.

It’s kind of farcical to suggest that a media company would move an article for no benefit to themselves. They are all desperate for engagement as that generates revenue.

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#3199591 24-Feb-2024 21:43

tweake: tho their kids story on the sea glider, ie using kids to push big business, is the most malicious thing they have done. i don't think you can explain that away with stupidity as an excuse.

It is not a big business. It is a high risk venture to say the least. Imo it's a fun story for kids who like planes and tech. In a few years some of those kids might grow up and join geekzone to ask where those cool ground effect planes went.

My money is on airships for low carbon travel. For a sober look at the history and where it's at today I'd recommend this from Bloomberg

This one I haven't seen

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#3199592 24-Feb-2024 21:44

SaltyNZ:

It's worth noting that the RBNZ's most recent outlook was that this should decline (page 11) due in part to the elimination of interest tax deductibility and the extension of the bright line test. ... Both of which NAFT are rolling back again.

In their conclusion, they state, in part:

This Note explains the rationale behind New Zealanders’ preferences for investing in housing. In hindsight, high returns (in a favourable tax environment), low volatility, and minimal correlation with other major asset groups have made housing an attract investment option to date.

...

The large role of residential property investment has come at the expense of diversification in household’s balance sheets. For many New Zealand families, housing is the largest — if not the sole — investment asset. That intensifies the exposure to both individual property and housing market risks of unfavourable events eroding the value of lifetime savings.

So, I stand by my position on this issue. :-)

It's funny that at no point have you mentioned the core reason why housing affordabilty has fallen significantly in New Zealand, and through most of the developed world - supply.

There hasn't and isn't been enough houses built to keep up with growing populations. This fundamentally drives the cost of housing.

It's worth noting that other countries with similar issues have capital gains taxes, are removing or never had interest deductability, and still have housing crises. It's because of lack of supply driven by planning laws and underinvestment in associated infrastructure, not tax.

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#3199594 24-Feb-2024 22:03

tweake: tho their kids story on the sea glider, ie using kids to push big business, is the most malicious thing they have done.

This sounds like a kind of conspiracy theory. I'm wondering where you might have heard this?

Handle9

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#3199596 24-Feb-2024 22:09

sen8or:

Where housing will always trump investments is not necessarily the absolute rate of return (which as demonstrated above, 5.5 - 6.2%PA which is hardly world-beating), it is the rate for risk.

I can't remember the exact numbers, but something like 50% of all businesses fail within the first 5 years and the 10 year failure rate is astronomically high. Compare that against housing where your chances of actually losing money (even in the short term) is relatively slim and in the long term is negligible.

How many of the businesses in the NZX Top 50 were there 10 years ago (or, how many from 10 years ago are there now?). With millions wiped off investors funds at the push of a button, mom and pop investors have to have either a very long term view to investment, or extremely lucky timing to actually make a return.

Not everyone can or will own a house, its not some absolute right, but everyone should be able to be housed in a clean, healthy and dignified manner. Owner/occupiers will never buy enough housing stock so its up to investors to provide housing for those unable (or unwilling) to buy one for themselves and yet we quite happily throw these people under the bus at every opportunity when they are (for personal gain) help meet a need.

You post shows one of the basic problems of investors, an ignorance of actual risk and poor investment strategy.

Buying an investment property on leverage is significantly more risky than buying equities for cash. If you lose your job you still have to pay the mortgage, if you invest in broad based tradeable investments you just stop investing until you are out of financial stress.

Equally investing in a single house is fundamentally more risky than investing in a broad based investment fund. Funnily enough claiming perfect timing is required is at odds with the facts of investing.

Seeing you mentioned the NZX50 lets look at it. The annualised 10 year total return is 9.05% pa. If an investor put their money into a broad based market fund they would be doing very well indeed with a much lower risk profile than investing in housing. If a single company disappears it doesn't really matter, the investor still has a piece of 49 other companies. If a new company comes along it doesn't really matter, you (or the fund ) just rebalances and buys into the new company.

If the investor also spread that investment into an international market fund and a bond fund they would be even more diversified while having stronger returns than property.

Equities and bonds are more volatile than housing has been historically. This is of course why you invest in different asset classes such as bonds, which are generally counter cyclical and diversify.

If you invested in an investment property at the end of 2021 you are likely making significant negative returns and under interest rate stress, particularly if you have a mortgage on the property you also live in.

Too many people don't have an emergency fund, don't get good advice and don't look at what they are wanting to acheive from investing. They just jump on whatever their mates brother told them and wonder why they don't make money.

neb

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#3199598 24-Feb-2024 22:15

Handle9:
You post shows one of the basic problems of investors, an ignorance of actual risk and poor investment strategy.

Buying an investment property on leverage is significantly more risky than buying equities for cash. If you lose your job you still have to pay the mortgage, if you invest in broad based tradeable investments you just stop investing until you are out of financial stress.

Friend of mine used to work in the mortgage department of a major bank and the level of ignorance displayed by property investors was staggering: "I've lost my job, what do you mean I have to keep making mortgage payments?". That's not an exaggeration, they genuinely believed that the bank would let them stop making payments when it was inconvenient for them.

Mind you, the people investing in NFTs and BTC aren't any more clueful.

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#3199600 24-Feb-2024 22:19

neb:
Handle9:

You post shows one of the basic problems of investors, an ignorance of actual risk and poor investment strategy.

Buying an investment property on leverage is significantly more risky than buying equities for cash. If you lose your job you still have to pay the mortgage, if you invest in broad based tradeable investments you just stop investing until you are out of financial stress.

Friend of mine used to work in the mortgage department of a major bank and the level of ignorance displayed by property investors was staggering: "I've lost my job, what do you mean I have to keep making mortgage payments?". That's not an exaggeration, they genuinely believed that the bank would let them stop making payments when it was inconvenient for them. Mind you, the people investing in NFTs and BTC aren't any more clueful.

I'm not at all surprised. I really don't get how people get themselves on the hook for hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt without even thinking about what could possibly go wrong.

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