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  # 550346 26-Nov-2011 16:47
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nonprayingmantis, they were addressed in the other thread you were just completely unprepared to accept other points of view on it.

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  # 550348 26-Nov-2011 16:50
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stuzz:
NonprayingMantis: we had a similar discussion in another thread, and lots of people voiced the opinion similar to "you can't complain about the government if you didn't vote" but despite repeated requests, nobody explained to me why this is. Anybody care to explain in this thread?


I guess it could be the opinion, that if you do not exercise your right to vote, then it could be taken that you don't care. Therefore if you don't like what the resulting changes/policies that happen are, then your complaint could fall on deaf ears also.


why? voting is probably one of the least effective things you can do to change policy. if you actually cared about policy then you would spend your time doing something much more effective (like campaigning to persuade other people to vote! :P  )

 
 
 
 


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  # 550349 26-Nov-2011 16:50
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freitasm: If we see a complaint from you in the next couple of years regarding the party that is in power, then we will come back at you pointing out your own fault.



Not Voting is a valid democratic choice, if you do not see a worthy candidate in your electorate you should not pick any at random, it makes less sense than abstaining.




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  # 550350 26-Nov-2011 16:51
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networkn: nonprayingmantis, they were addressed in the other thread you were just completely unprepared to accept other points of view on it.


I apologise, I must have missed the explanation.  could you provide a link

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  # 550351 26-Nov-2011 16:52
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If you don't vote then you have no right to moan when the 'wrong' party gets voted in.

Don't vote = You're a Fool.




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  # 550352 26-Nov-2011 16:55
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NonprayingMantis:

networkn: nonprayingmantis, they were addressed in the other thread you were just completely unprepared to accept other points of view on it.


I apologise, I must have missed the explanation.  could you provide a link


/me senses trolling.

You are welcome to go back to any of the posts I made on the other thread and re-read if you wish. 

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  # 550356 26-Nov-2011 17:06
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networkn:
NonprayingMantis:

networkn: nonprayingmantis, they were addressed in the other thread you were just completely unprepared to accept other points of view on it.


I apologise, I must have missed the explanation.  could you provide a link


/me senses trolling.

You are welcome to go back to any of the posts I made on the other thread and re-read if you wish. 


I just did.  I didn't see any valid explanations for the idea that if you don't vote, this means you are not allowed to complain about anything the government did.

Okay, let's say you are right, and that voting gives you the right to complain and that is why you should do it.  If the reason for voting is so you can complain about the government, then surely if you vote for the winning government that also removes your right to complain (even more so since not only were you not neutral, you actually supported the party who is doing the stuff you don't like). 

That being the case, it would seem the most sensible voting strategy is to vote for a party you know definitely won't win (say, the legalise cannabis party).  Your vote still won't make any difference whatsoever to the actual result (i.e. the same people will get voted in, and the parties will win the same number of seats), but at least you will have the right to moan about the government in power.  That is the logical outcome of the argument that the reason to vote is so you can complain about the government.

 
 
 
 


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  # 550357 26-Nov-2011 17:08
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KiwiNZ: Not Voting is a valid democratic choice, if you do not see a worthy candidate in your electorate you should not pick any at random, it makes less sense than abstaining.

I felt that there was a choice for me to vote for but I do sort of agree with the above in that there could be a none-of-the-above or no confidence vote to add to the statistics. So we could split the apathetic/uninformed/unaware from the actively passive in the election results. Just submitting an empty form wouldn't really feel the same I imagine.

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  # 550358 26-Nov-2011 17:09
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I wouldn't say voting gives anyone the rights to complain, or not voting takes the right to complain away.

But I am saying that I reserve my right of not listening or even considering someone's complaints later if the person didn't vote.

Voting is the chance anyone has to try and change the government in a acceptable way.






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  # 550397 26-Nov-2011 19:26
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codyc1515: What's the point? Tell me who's going to get in: 1) National or 2) Labour. Funny, theres no one else on that list.

Funny how nobody else has replied to this. Can somebody point me to a time when someone other than National or Labour has been "voted" in?

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  # 550399 26-Nov-2011 19:37
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Cody: The point has been mentioned a number of times, its a chance for you to have your say, and based on the polls the only two parties who could lead, are National, which is far and away the most likely, then Labour.

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  # 550400 26-Nov-2011 19:42
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networkn: Cody: The point has been mentioned a number of times, its a chance for you to have your say, and based on the polls the only two parties who could lead, are National, which is far and away the most likely, then Labour.

So what is the point in voting for any of the smaller parties then?

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  # 550403 26-Nov-2011 19:57
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Because it gives them a proportion of the votes, so they can't LEAD, but they can CONTRIBUTE and perhaps provide some balance to a particularly left or right leading party.. It allows minority views to still be heard.

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  # 550405 26-Nov-2011 19:59
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KiwiNZ:
freitasm: If we see a complaint from you in the next couple of years regarding the party that is in power, then we will come back at you pointing out your own fault.



Not Voting is a valid democratic choice, if you do not see a worthy candidate in your electorate you should not pick any at random, it makes less sense than abstaining.


This is true, not voting is your right, but every voting choice sends a message - including a non vote.

After each election, the parties will analyse voting patterns to determine how each demographic votes and which polices influence their choice.

If you belong to a demographic where only 50% vote, while in another group, over 90% vote, guess which group gets the most attention from the parties when it comes to policy review?

So if you want to send a message to the parties, make sure the message you send isn't "I don't care", because if that is your message, they won't care either.





#include <standard.disclaimer>


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  # 550407 26-Nov-2011 20:01
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alexx:
KiwiNZ:
freitasm: If we see a complaint from you in the next couple of years regarding the party that is in power, then we will come back at you pointing out your own fault.



Not Voting is a valid democratic choice, if you do not see a worthy candidate in your electorate you should not pick any at random, it makes less sense than abstaining.


This is true, not voting is your right, but every voting choice sends a message - including a non vote.

After each election, the parties will analyse voting patterns to determine how each demographic votes and which polices influence their choice.

If you belong to a demographic where only 50% vote, while in another group, over 90% vote, guess which group gets the most attention from the parties when it comes to policy review?

So if you want to send a message to the parties, make sure the message you send isn't "I don't care", because if that is your message, they won't care either.



That is a great point you make alexx despite knowing it, it hadn't occurred to point it out. 

PrayingMantis that is a reason to vote regardless!
 

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