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84 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 550883 28-Nov-2011 12:00
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Updates to those who voted

74%  not 65% as I previously quoted
National won around 48% of the registered voters
 That roughly means they have the support of 37% (approx)of the registered voters  Does this give the Govt the right to sell assets.  The prime minister believes so.
 What are your thoughts 

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Master Geek
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  Reply # 550887 28-Nov-2011 12:03
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tigercorp: Is there an option on the voting form to abstain? I have to say I've never noticed if there is, or even looked for it.

I'd support compulsory voting if there was.


The's the "informal" result. Unfortunately you can't tell the difference between someone who made a mistake and those who intended a "none of the above" result.

If we included a "non of the above" then I'm sure that candidate would win most seats. Smile




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Master Geek


  Reply # 550940 28-Nov-2011 13:23
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simplestuff: Updates to those who voted

74%  not 65% as I previously quoted
National won around 48% of the registered voters
 That roughly means they have the support of 37% (approx)of the registered voters  Does this give the Govt the right to sell assets.  The prime minister believes so.
 What are your thoughts 


It's only the 48% that counts, the views of the non voters are immaterial as they have indicated that they don't care. So it's pretty much a 50:50 split - National (48%) + Act and UF (2%) for, the rest against.

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  Reply # 550945 28-Nov-2011 13:26
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simplestuff: 74%  not 65% as I previously quoted
National won around 48% of the registered voters

That roughly means they have the support of 37% (approx)of the registered voters  

Does this give the Govt the right to sell assets.


No. This means they have support of 48% of people who voted. If someone didn't vote they didn't put their opinion or support out there. As I said in the first reply in this thread if someone didn't vote, they cannot complain of things going in a way they don't like.

 




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  Reply # 550956 28-Nov-2011 13:32
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freitasm:
simplestuff: 74%  not 65% as I previously quoted
National won around 48% of the registered voters

That roughly means they have the support of 37% (approx)of the registered voters  

Does this give the Govt the right to sell assets.


No. This means they have support of 48% of people who voted. If someone didn't vote they didn't put their opinion or support out there. As I said in the first reply in this thread if someone didn't vote, they cannot complain of things going in a way they don't like.

 


what about if they vote for the party that wins, can they complain then?

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  Reply # 550959 28-Nov-2011 13:35
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Just because you vote for someone/party it doesn't mean you agree with everything they say/do.

In my view, it doesn't matter who people vote for in the context of this discussion. If they vote they can complain as much as they want.

If someone decide not to vote then they simply posted a big "I don't care" sign in their foreheads and lost a lot of the credibility they could have with me.







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  Reply # 550968 28-Nov-2011 13:52
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miamiheatfan: Sorry, this may seem dumb.
But what if I just don't want to vote/turn up to the voting booth today ?

Will i get fined or go to jail?
I honestly cannot be bothered doing it. I don't like either parties and i don't want to turn up.


I don't think anybody should be vilified for choosing not to vote. I'd almost go as far as to say that would go against the foundations of democracy - having a choice.

That being said, I voted. 




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  Reply # 550969 28-Nov-2011 13:54
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freitasm: Just because you vote for someone/party it doesn't mean you agree with everything they say/do.

In my view, it doesn't matter who people vote for in the context of this discussion. If they vote they can complain as much as they want.

If someone decide not to vote then they simply posted a big "I don't care" sign in their foreheads and lost a lot of the credibility they could have with me.





Same here.
 

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  Reply # 550976 28-Nov-2011 14:00
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So if I vote for, say, National, then they sell state assets exactly as they said they would, I have more of a right to complain about them doing it than if I didn?t vote at all? Even though my act of voting adds weight to their decision to do it? that makes no sense to me. Surely a vote for a party is a stronger indicator of support for that partys policies than no vote at all ? which indicates neutrality i.e. neither for nor against.


?National's campaign manager Steven Joyce said the convincing election outcome showed there is a mandate to proceed.
"I think the reality is, with a 48 percent party vote, that's a pretty strong endorsement of where the government sits.?
http://nz.news.yahoo.com/election/a/-/12098484/new-zealand-pm-claims-vote-mandate-to-sell-assets/

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  Reply # 550978 28-Nov-2011 14:01
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Yes, they voted, and secondly, just because you support a party doesn't mean you agree with everything they say or do. I know which way I voted but I don't agree with all policies, you take the good with the bad, but if asked about Asset Sales, I would suggest the current plan doesn't sit well with me.

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  Reply # 550980 28-Nov-2011 14:05
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BurningBeard:
miamiheatfan: Sorry, this may seem dumb.
But what if I just don't want to vote/turn up to the voting booth today ?

Will i get fined or go to jail?
I honestly cannot be bothered doing it. I don't like either parties and i don't want to turn up.


I don't think anybody should be vilified for choosing not to vote. I'd almost go as far as to say that would go against the foundations of democracy - having a choice.

That being said, I voted. 



Yeah, but part of a democracy is surely the right to free speech. And a part of that is the right to say 'not nice' things about people who don't vote.

That doesn't mean that people who don't vote should be verbally abused, threatened or anything like that. But saying "Well, you didn't vote so don't complain now when the Govt does things you don't like", yep that's acceptable. 

Of course, that cuts both ways and the non-voter has the right to say 'Voting is a silly waste of time'.

The greatest threat to democracy is apathy. The cure is debate. 




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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 550988 28-Nov-2011 14:25
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New Zealand must be in great shape if all people have to worry about is whether they should vote or not, complain that the little cutesy kiwi villagers' "family silver" is to be sold and over the odd cup of tea Laughing.

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  Reply # 551002 28-Nov-2011 14:58
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is the fact that 49% of a few SOE's is to be sold off just an emotional reaction or do most or the protagonists actually have a valid reason they shouldn't be part sold.

A lot of my leftie friends went on and on about but actually few had any idea on actually how it would effect them.

Interestingly Sweden, the country most thrown up as the example of a good welfare state, is/has sold of part of thier SOE's, I wonder why they did that!

I'm not for or against it as I see we have greater issues to worry about. If Labour had managed to get in to power I would have been more concerned with the lolly scramble they were offering to voters and how we would have afforded that.

Suffice that if that many people were/are against the sale why did they not vote for Labour or did they actually think voting for Winston and the Greens would make them feel better.




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  Reply # 551005 28-Nov-2011 15:04
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crackrdbycracku: That doesn't mean that people who don't vote should be verbally abused, threatened or anything like that. But saying "Well, you didn't vote so don't complain now when the Govt does things you don't like", yep that's acceptable.


I think it's the "If you didn't vote, then don't complain" bit that irks me a bit. It's an empty maxim.
Plus I know people who don't vote and don't complain either. 

I'd rather someone choose not to vote than just tick any old box because they're obliged to.  I know a guy who bases where his tick goes with eeny, meeny, miny, moe - I'd rather someone like him sits this one out thank you very much.




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  Reply # 551013 28-Nov-2011 15:12
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BurningBeard:
crackrdbycracku: That doesn't mean that people who don't vote should be verbally abused, threatened or anything like that. But saying "Well, you didn't vote so don't complain now when the Govt does things you don't like", yep that's acceptable.


I think it's the "If you didn't vote, then don't complain" bit that irks me a bit. It's an empty maxim.
Plus I know people who don't vote and don't complain either. 

I'd rather someone choose not to vote than just tick any old box because they're obliged to.  I know a guy who bases where his tick goes with eeny, meeny, miny, moe - I'd rather someone like him sits this one out thank you very much.


I guess 'vote' is shorthand for:

"participate in the world around you and in particular the governmental process of the country you live in, regardless of whether you get the result you want at any given point in time" 

I would say people who vote because they are obliged to without thinking or randomly decide their vote as above aren't really participating.   

Living in a democracy is the art of putting up with 'stuff' you don't like but trying to do something about it anyway - CrackedByCracku




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