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mattwnz
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  #1177937 18-Nov-2014 13:33
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I can never remember my pin on my card, because it was automatically generated, so I would only use mine on purchases for under $80. HOwever I have yet to find a terminal that actually works yet when I have tried it.

nigelj
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  #1177940 18-Nov-2014 13:48
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Mine arrived yesterday and the first thing I noticed was that the area of the back of my Nexus 4 that the NFC chip will detect tags is actually reasonably big. only safe place to put it seems to be around the Nexus logo (which is also directly below the camera), Westpac's advice is "just disable NFC on your phone" which I find counter-intuitive especially as mobile payments aren't the only reason to use NFC.

Also seems like a bad move to put it anywhere near the NFC antennas/etc as Semble (was "Paymark TSM") is apparently launching early next year - although even though Westpac (like ANZ/ASB/BNZ) own a chunk in Paymark they are apparently going it alone, so maybe Westpac customers will be stuck with Paytag for longer.

My current thought, place it in the note area of my wallet with a bit of shielding behind (things like AT Hop card, normal cards etc) and use it through my closed wallet - as everyone else says, you've pretty much got to take your wallet anywhere you go anyway.

 
 
 
 


Flickky
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  #1177959 18-Nov-2014 14:15
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nigelj: My current thought, place it in the note area of my wallet with a bit of shielding behind (things like AT Hop card, normal cards etc) and use it through my closed wallet - as everyone else says, you've pretty much got to take your wallet anywhere you go anyway.


The paytag will interfere with your hop card and vice versa - would not recommend :(




Lannah - find me on twitter.


nigelj
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  #1177968 18-Nov-2014 14:31
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Flickky:
nigelj: My current thought, place it in the note area of my wallet with a bit of shielding behind (things like AT Hop card, normal cards etc) and use it through my closed wallet - as everyone else says, you've pretty much got to take your wallet anywhere you go anyway.


The paytag will interfere with your hop card and vice versa - would not recommend :(


Hence why I said shielding behind, I always take my Hop card out and place it into my shirt/jacket pocket (a routine I got into years back with Brisbane's system) to avoid mucking around during tag off/sitting down/etc.

Kyanar
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  #1178134 18-Nov-2014 20:52
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nigelj:
Flickky:
nigelj: My current thought, place it in the note area of my wallet with a bit of shielding behind (things like AT Hop card, normal cards etc) and use it through my closed wallet - as everyone else says, you've pretty much got to take your wallet anywhere you go anyway.


The paytag will interfere with your hop card and vice versa - would not recommend :(


Hence why I said shielding behind, I always take my Hop card out and place it into my shirt/jacket pocket (a routine I got into years back with Brisbane's system) to avoid mucking around during tag off/sitting down/etc.


Not sure why that would actually be a problem, if so it's a flaw in HOP.  I leave my Go Card (Brisbane) in my wallet without bothering to shield anything, and the reader somehow knows to ignore the Visa, Amex, HOP Card, Onesmart, and Mastercard.  Yet I'm led to believe that you go near a HOP reader with a HOP card and a Mastercard and ONLY ONE CARD PLEASE.

NZSpides
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  #1178159 18-Nov-2014 21:44
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I have been using pay wave for ages with my Westpac card, didn't even know there was a sticker version.
I'm avoiding any of the other contactless payment methods until Apples system is adopted (you're silly if you think it won't be) in New Zealand.

I don't like the technology used in the current Pay wave, too easy to steal a card and go on a spending spree.
With the iPhone 6 and 6+ you have to have a fingerprint to authorize payments, better than a pin in my book.

The Pay Wave uses a Mifare Classic tecnology, this had been 'hacked' but it's a seriously difficult hack to perform.
I'm not terribly worried about it's security, but for purchases under $80 it's not tied to any second factor authentication and from a monetary perspective, that's nuts.

Kyanar
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  #1178203 19-Nov-2014 02:11
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NZSpides: I have been using pay wave for ages with my Westpac card, didn't even know there was a sticker version.
I'm avoiding any of the other contactless payment methods until Apples system is adopted (you're silly if you think it won't be) in New Zealand.

I don't like the technology used in the current Pay wave, too easy to steal a card and go on a spending spree.
With the iPhone 6 and 6+ you have to have a fingerprint to authorize payments, better than a pin in my book.

The Pay Wave uses a Mifare Classic tecnology, this had been 'hacked' but it's a seriously difficult hack to perform.
I'm not terribly worried about it's security, but for purchases under $80 it's not tied to any second factor authentication and from a monetary perspective, that's nuts.


You DO realise that every 3-5 transactions, contactless payment triggers a PIN prompt right?  So your hypothetical "spending spree" is actually... well, not so much.

 
 
 
 


NZSpides
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  #1178229 19-Nov-2014 06:32
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To be honest I didn't know that, I haven't struck that since the average shop doesn't even have pay wave terminals.

I still like the idea of a thumbprint over a pin.:-)

sbiddle
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  #1178236 19-Nov-2014 07:32
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Kyanar:
NZSpides: I have been using pay wave for ages with my Westpac card, didn't even know there was a sticker version.
I'm avoiding any of the other contactless payment methods until Apples system is adopted (you're silly if you think it won't be) in New Zealand.

I don't like the technology used in the current Pay wave, too easy to steal a card and go on a spending spree.
With the iPhone 6 and 6+ you have to have a fingerprint to authorize payments, better than a pin in my book.

The Pay Wave uses a Mifare Classic tecnology, this had been 'hacked' but it's a seriously difficult hack to perform.
I'm not terribly worried about it's security, but for purchases under $80 it's not tied to any second factor authentication and from a monetary perspective, that's nuts.


You DO realise that every 3-5 transactions, contactless payment triggers a PIN prompt right?  So your hypothetical "spending spree" is actually... well, not so much.


It doesn't automatically trigger a PIN prompt, but this could easily be implemented by a bank. There are a lot of granular security steps that can be deployed that are part of the EMV standard.

The simple reality is that EMV had resulted in a huge decline in credit card fraud when a card is present. Card not present fraud is a very difficult problem to overcome.




sbiddle
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  #1178237 19-Nov-2014 07:36
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Kyanar:
nigelj:
Flickky:
nigelj: My current thought, place it in the note area of my wallet with a bit of shielding behind (things like AT Hop card, normal cards etc) and use it through my closed wallet - as everyone else says, you've pretty much got to take your wallet anywhere you go anyway.


The paytag will interfere with your hop card and vice versa - would not recommend :(


Hence why I said shielding behind, I always take my Hop card out and place it into my shirt/jacket pocket (a routine I got into years back with Brisbane's system) to avoid mucking around during tag off/sitting down/etc.


Not sure why that would actually be a problem, if so it's a flaw in HOP.  I leave my Go Card (Brisbane) in my wallet without bothering to shield anything, and the reader somehow knows to ignore the Visa, Amex, HOP Card, Onesmart, and Mastercard.  Yet I'm led to believe that you go near a HOP reader with a HOP card and a Mastercard and ONLY ONE CARD PLEASE.


I had problems using my new HOP card in Auckland when I was up there earlier in the month. It refused to read with multiple cards, and then on multiple occasions (tag off and on another journey)afterwards when the card was held in front of the reader by itself it kept telling me to try again on the first touch, and then on the 2nd told me I'd already tagged on/off. I was also amazed at how slow HOP was, I don't think I've ever come across a NFC system anywhere in the world that takes that long to read and write to the card.

As for multiple card detection this can be done, but typically takes a lot longer to process a transaction so this seems to typically be disabled.


GregM
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  #1178238 19-Nov-2014 07:40
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Countdown have contactless turned off for Debit, so if your tags are linked to that, it won't work.  

So far I've seen a reduction in card present fraud due to contactless, not an increase as most people expect.

sbiddle
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  #1178239 19-Nov-2014 07:42
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GregM: Countdown have contactless turned off for Debit, so if your tags are linked to that, it won't work.  

So far I've seen a reduction in card present fraud due to contactless, not an increase as most people expect.


The debit card issue relates to merchant fees due to the way debit cards are processed as a CC transaction if Paywave/Paspass is used.

Most card present credit card fraud has historically been for high amounts, ie somebody steals a credit card and goes to supermarket and buys lots of eye fillet steak, smoke and booze.



nigelj
856 posts

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  #1179500 19-Nov-2014 13:09
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sbiddle:
Kyanar:
nigelj:
Flickky:
nigelj: My current thought, place it in the note area of my wallet with a bit of shielding behind (things like AT Hop card, normal cards etc) and use it through my closed wallet - as everyone else says, you've pretty much got to take your wallet anywhere you go anyway.


The paytag will interfere with your hop card and vice versa - would not recommend :(


Hence why I said shielding behind, I always take my Hop card out and place it into my shirt/jacket pocket (a routine I got into years back with Brisbane's system) to avoid mucking around during tag off/sitting down/etc.


Not sure why that would actually be a problem, if so it's a flaw in HOP.  I leave my Go Card (Brisbane) in my wallet without bothering to shield anything, and the reader somehow knows to ignore the Visa, Amex, HOP Card, Onesmart, and Mastercard.  Yet I'm led to believe that you go near a HOP reader with a HOP card and a Mastercard and ONLY ONE CARD PLEASE.


I had problems using my new HOP card in Auckland when I was up there earlier in the month. It refused to read with multiple cards, and then on multiple occasions (tag off and on another journey)afterwards when the card was held in front of the reader by itself it kept telling me to try again on the first touch, and then on the 2nd told me I'd already tagged on/off. I was also amazed at how slow HOP was, I don't think I've ever come across a NFC system anywhere in the world that takes that long to read and write to the card.

As for multiple card detection this can be done, but typically takes a lot longer to process a transaction so this seems to typically be disabled.



In re to Kyanar, yeah, I just like to play it safe, having 3-4 paywave cards in such close proximity, I'd just prefer that if I went with the Paytag in back of wallet approach, that it was the only one that could be used.  (Also I thought Paywave itself had a thing where if it saw multiple compatible cards that it'd bawk.

& going a little off topic here, sbiddle HOP cards seem to be as about fast/slow as any others, the slowness (and I noticed this worse with the Snapper cards up here) is the displays, as soon as you hear the beep & lights it's done.

Kyanar
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  #1179839 19-Nov-2014 21:36
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sbiddle: 

It doesn't automatically trigger a PIN prompt, but this could easily be implemented by a bank. There are a lot of granular security steps that can be deployed that are part of the EMV standard.


I believe it was Westpac that informed me that they implemented this for their cards.

sbiddle: 

I had problems using my new HOP card in Auckland when I was up there earlier in the month. It refused to read with multiple cards, and then on multiple occasions (tag off and on another journey)afterwards when the card was held in front of the reader by itself it kept telling me to try again on the first touch, and then on the 2nd told me I'd already tagged on/off. I was also amazed at how slow HOP was, I don't think I've ever come across a NFC system anywhere in the world that takes that long to read and write to the card.


Then you haven't encountered a Queensland Rail Go Card gate ;)


dickytim
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  #1179918 20-Nov-2014 06:41
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sbiddle:
GregM: Countdown have contactless turned off for Debit, so if your tags are linked to that, it won't work.  

So far I've seen a reduction in card present fraud due to contactless, not an increase as most people expect.


The debit card issue relates to merchant fees due to the way debit cards are processed as a CC transaction if Paywave/Paspass is used.

Most card present credit card fraud has historically been for high amounts, ie somebody steals a credit card and goes to supermarket and buys lots of eye fillet steak, smoke and booze.




I figured this was the case, I might just have to use my credit card at Countdown, a bit silly really, I use a credit card, they are charged fees from Visa, I use my debit card they get charged the same fees, however they make it hard on me to use my debit card, which I prefer as I like using my own money and my credit card is actually a personal loan as such so I don't use it much.

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