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mattwnz
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  #1553037 15-May-2016 14:00
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Inflation will eat away at the debt, and much of the debt is used to pay for assets that will be used by future generations anyway, so they will be paying it back.  But at the end of the day it will be ratepayers who will be picking up the bill, many of who will pass it onto renters, in their rents. The thing is that as Auckland will likely be owned more and more by overseas buyers, as NZers cash up their million dollar shack and, and move of cheaper areas in NZ, the rates will largely be paid for by either people renting, or by rich overseas people who are holding onto the property. I would like to see the figures of how many properties in Auckland centre are actually owned by overseas residents. In Queenstown it is almost 10%, if not more when you take into account trusts etc.


 
 
 

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Batman

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  #1553041 15-May-2016 14:15
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mattwnz:

 

Inflation will eat away at the debt, and much of the debt is used to pay for assets that will be used by future generations anyway, so they will be paying it back.  But at the end of the day it will be ratepayers who will be picking up the bill, many of who will pass it onto renters, in their rents. The thing is that as Auckland will likely be owned more and more by overseas buyers, as NZers cash up their million dollar shack and, and move of cheaper areas in NZ, the rates will largely be paid for by either people renting, or by rich overseas people who are holding onto the property. I would like to see the figures of how many properties in Auckland centre are actually owned by overseas residents. In Queenstown it is almost 10%, if not more when you take into account trusts etc.

 

 

Aucklanders are paying much lower rates per CV/GV than Dunedin that much I know. 


Benoire
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  #1553046 15-May-2016 14:23
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Indeed, our rates bill is so much lower than other parts of the country, we shouldn't really have much to complain about, given that we have such good infrastructure in comparison.  It can be handled better, and lessons will be learnt from the ASB building issues with respect to Panuku Development Agency (they took the ACPL roles over) and should improve.  As it stands Auckland requires around $17B worth of infrastructure to support the sprawl that is currently proposed due to the Councillors interfering in the Unitary Plan; guess what rate payer... You're picking up that tab(!) not the developer who makes money from the whole process.




mattwnz
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  #1553071 15-May-2016 15:07
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Benoire:

 

Indeed, our rates bill is so much lower than other parts of the country, we shouldn't really have much to complain about, given that we have such good infrastructure in comparison.  It can be handled better, and lessons will be learnt from the ASB building issues with respect to Panuku Development Agency (they took the ACPL roles over) and should improve.  As it stands Auckland requires around $17B worth of infrastructure to support the sprawl that is currently proposed due to the Councillors interfering in the Unitary Plan; guess what rate payer... You're picking up that tab(!) not the developer who makes money from the whole process.

 

 

 

 

At the moment. Small towns also can have very high rates, compared to Auckland, as you have a smaller pool of properties to pay for infrastructure. You get better economies of scale in Auckland due to the far higher population. In a small town, I know someone who has house in the town (not a farm or lifestyle block) with a CV of under 1 million (which isn't that high compared to Auckland prices), but they have to pay 8k in rates. They are trying to sell, but can't partly because no one wants to pay 8k in rates in a small town, so that is putting some poeple off.  

 

But our ratings system has become a wealth tax, as it should really be based on the person using the council resources, not the properties value.  You can get a cheaper house housing 10 highly paid people paying 2k in rates, but you may have an elderly couple in their house they have lived in for years, paying 6k + in rates. So on one hand you get someone paying $200 per year in rates, versus, a person paying $3000 in rates, yet they are  using roughly the same amount of resources per person. So the people with the more valuable properties are subsidizing those in cheaper properties. It isn't fair and is flawed, but it is what it is, and life isn't fair. Councils justification is that other councils use this way to rate and it is allowed in legislation, and that there is no perfect ratings system. I think a rates system based on a person is a far fair way of doing it, and it could be administered by the ird, and then paid to councils. The problem is that most people may end up paying more, so it won't happen.


Geektastic
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  #1553138 15-May-2016 16:38
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joker97:

old3eyes:


As a person who lives in Auckland these people are nothing but a pack of tax and spenders.  Spending money on stuff that's not needed.  Maybe they need to take a leaf out of some of the US council books where they can only spend what they have  and can't go over budget  without a referendum.  No fancy pavements or redoing the road you just resealed last year just to keep your contractors in a job. 



We have some roadworks in our area. It's still going. Guess when it started. June 2015.


It's important to do works yes. But something that would have been completed in 10 days in Japan, in NZ, in general, goes on forever. Completely inefficient = waste of tax payers' money.



I asked the road manager at South Wairarapa council about a similar instance here. I said that I presumed the contract had late penalties and early bonuses built in.

"Oh, we don't use those contracts here."

"Maybe you should?"

"If you know so much why not come and work for me?"

"If I do that, you'll be working for me. But not for long."

He stomped off after that.





Batman

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  #1553146 15-May-2016 16:50
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Geektastic:
joker97:

old3eyes:


As a person who lives in Auckland these people are nothing but a pack of tax and spenders.  Spending money on stuff that's not needed.  Maybe they need to take a leaf out of some of the US council books where they can only spend what they have  and can't go over budget  without a referendum.  No fancy pavements or redoing the road you just resealed last year just to keep your contractors in a job. 



We have some roadworks in our area. It's still going. Guess when it started. June 2015.


It's important to do works yes. But something that would have been completed in 10 days in Japan, in NZ, in general, goes on forever. Completely inefficient = waste of tax payers' money.



I asked the road manager at South Wairarapa council about a similar instance here. I said that I presumed the contract had late penalties and early bonuses built in.

"Oh, we don't use those contracts here."

"Maybe you should?"

"If you know so much why not come and work for me?"

"If I do that, you'll be working for me. But not for long."

He stomped off after that.


If it's to give people jobs for longer, well, I can understand, but i bet the hourly rate is much higher than just $20x however many people are employed to move the orange cones around.

Benoire
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  #1553152 15-May-2016 17:05
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Geektastic:
joker97:

 

old3eyes:

 

 

 

As a person who lives in Auckland these people are nothing but a pack of tax and spenders.  Spending money on stuff that's not needed.  Maybe they need to take a leaf out of some of the US council books where they can only spend what they have  and can't go over budget  without a referendum.  No fancy pavements or redoing the road you just resealed last year just to keep your contractors in a job. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We have some roadworks in our area. It's still going. Guess when it started. June 2015.

 

 

 

It's important to do works yes. But something that would have been completed in 10 days in Japan, in NZ, in general, goes on forever. Completely inefficient = waste of tax payers' money.

 



I asked the road manager at South Wairarapa council about a similar instance here. I said that I presumed the contract had late penalties and early bonuses built in.

"Oh, we don't use those contracts here."

"Maybe you should?"

"If you know so much why not come and work for me?"

"If I do that, you'll be working for me. But not for long."

He stomped off after that.

 

Interesting that he doesn't know that the NZS3910:2013 (the only construction grade contract used in NZ) does not have penalty clauses built in to it.  The recent consortium who wrote the damn thing allowed the contractor to claim day works for various things but the clauses that the client can use are so limited and do not allow us to penalise for late delivery; no point saying use a different contract as we are bound by various local government acts and procurement processes to use this contract.




Handle9
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  #1553176 15-May-2016 18:00
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Benoire:

Interesting that he doesn't know that the NZS3910:2013 (the only construction grade contract used in NZ) does not have penalty clauses built in to it.  The recent consortium who wrote the damn thing allowed the contractor to claim day works for various things but the clauses that the client can use are so limited and do not allow us to penalise for late delivery; no point saying use a different contract as we are bound by various local government acts and procurement processes to use this contract.



You can definitely have liquidated damages on an NZS3910:2013 based contract. You can also have time bars, pain/gain clauses and all sorts of other contractually based instruments. These things can be added as schedules.

Benoire
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  #1553196 15-May-2016 18:13
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I apologise, you can have liquidated damages but unlike day works, the cost to the contractor is minimal for massive economic disruption compared to the day works rates imposed.  Last one I did could only charge $700 a week where as the contractor was able to claim $3K per day.


Handle9
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  #1553221 15-May-2016 18:15
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Handle9:
Benoire:

Interesting that he doesn't know that the NZS3910:2013 (the only construction grade contract used in NZ) does not have penalty clauses built in to it.  The recent consortium who wrote the damn thing allowed the contractor to claim day works for various things but the clauses that the client can use are so limited and do not allow us to penalise for late delivery; no point saying use a different contract as we are bound by various local government acts and procurement processes to use this contract.



You can definitely have liquidated damages on an NZS3910:2013 based contract. You can also have time bars, pain/gain clauses and all sorts of other contractually based instruments. These things can be added as schedules.


Just checked, 10.5 is the clause for damages for late completion, 10.6 is the clause relating to bonus for early completion. I've never seen an early completion bonus in practice, penalties for late completion are normal though.

Benoire
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  #1553244 15-May-2016 18:21
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mmmm 10.5 must be new for 2013, I didn't see such stuff in 2003... But then most of my contract life before coming here was using NCE conditions of contract etc... anyway we digress from the topic at hand!


Handle9
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  #1553245 15-May-2016 18:22
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Benoire:

I apologise, you can have liquidated damages but unlike day works, the cost to the contractor is minimal for massive economic disruption compared to the day works rates imposed.  Last one I did could only charge $700 a week where as the contractor was able to claim $3K per day.



It's within the scope of the principal to value liquidated damages however they choose. It's a stipulated value for damages which is agreed under the contract.

A contractors claim for delay can only be for their actual costs related to the delay. You aren't entitled to profit on a delay claim unless it's encapsulated within a schedule of rates agreed to within the contract. It's quite a different claim.

Handle9
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  #1553246 15-May-2016 18:24
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Benoire:

mmmm 10.5 must be new for 2013, I didn't see such stuff in 2003... But then most of my contract life before coming here was using NCE conditions of contract etc... anyway we digress from the topic at hand!



This is true - for some of us it's hard to switch off arguing about what's is a contract on the weekend :)

Benoire
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  #1553249 15-May-2016 18:42
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haha yeah, although I've moved firmly in to design and specification(ing) instead of managing contracts and projects.


Geektastic
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  #1553278 15-May-2016 19:14
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Benoire:

 

I apologise, you can have liquidated damages but unlike day works, the cost to the contractor is minimal for massive economic disruption compared to the day works rates imposed.  Last one I did could only charge $700 a week where as the contractor was able to claim $3K per day.

 

 


Sounds like it was written by the wrong people!






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