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MichaelNZ
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  #2089812 13-Sep-2018 10:50
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Linuxluver:

 

They did address the issue of charging fees with no risk to them. They moved to a basis where if a loan fails they lose out, too.....not just the investor.

They don't like negative criticism. They seem to be OK with constructive criticism.....from my experience. 

Your last question is a bit of a straw man. Harmoney is backed by Heartland Bank / Finance and unlikely to fail. Investors like us are only 25% of the capital involved....and the platform is seeing a very positive rate of return at all times.

 

 

They only changed that after a lot of pressure but I have never heard anything which indicates the have dealt with anything else I raised.

 

The fact they even had the audacity to mass refinance loans after only circa-3 months says a lot to me about their operation. What part of them thought that was a uncontroversial and had commercial-integrity strategy?

 

I also asked if they would refinance impaired/charged-off loans (thus bailing out the first lot of lenders at the expense of the second lot) and the response was less than satisfactory.

 

I asked them if they would use refinancing as a tool to the advantage of themselves and their favored wholesale investors. - again, their response failed to answer the question.

 

The other point is not a strawman. Incidentally, that coincides with one of the other issues I raised which was about information asymertary - namely themselves and their favored "wholesale investors" playing in the same sandpit but with a lot more information.

 

Yeah people always think it's great until it isn't... For me it's red flags and the biggest one of all is their failure to properly respond to me.





Integrity Tech Solutions @ Norsewood, New Zealand


nunz
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  #2097749 27-Sep-2018 20:48
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mattwnz:

sonyxperiageek:


How's everybody's investments going in Harmoney? I put in $500 and after two months, it's gotten me around $5 gross interest, with less than $2 of fees, bringing that to a grand net interest of around $3 so far. Haven't had any late payments so far and I've invested in A B and C grade loans. All of my funds are being loaned out through Auto Lend as there is just not enough borrowers like someone said unless you get lucky and check at just the right time, or it's an E grade loan etc.


So far I think it's going good, I've also not invested many into the 60 month loans, just the 36 month loans which is set automatically in my Auto Lend. The interest rates are definitely better than the bank.


Just a question: Does the personal RAR only show up after the year has ended? I'm guessing so as it is realised Annual return rate.



 


I am wondering if it is worth the hassle and risk, for what look like quite small returns. If you had put that same money into a term deposit at 4% for 36 months, you would have made a gross interest of $3.34 before tax after two months, and that is usually compounding interest. So your returns look quite low considering the type of lending it is. I guess you have to start small though.



We looked at the returns and thought it was alot if money for little dollars.. eg coffee money. Instead we invested in kiva which provides micro loans .. Puting our spare money to work for the greater good.

So far no defaults. I know this gives us nothing but risk but am happier letting money make areal difference as opposed to the opportunity to get another a coffee aweek from lending.

Not preaching or comparing to harmony investors but just our response to what seemed alittle return for chunks of money

 
 
 
 


MichaelNZ
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  #2097768 27-Sep-2018 21:18
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People who invest in Kiva, etc, have their heart in a good place :-)

 

I was a lender on Kiva 2007 - 2013, during which time I amassed 191 loans putting me in the top 2%. It was great in the early days when it was about providing a few bucks to a small manufacturer or farmer. But alas, over time the loans started to become more trivial with increasing numbers of consumer goods.

 

I also increasingly had other concerns-

 

1. Kiva aligning themselves with corporates

 

2. Kiva becoming unresponsive or whitewashing concerns

 

3. The moral hazard of providing 'free' (of interest) funds to lenders who would then lend it out on commercial terms with the funders wearing the risk.

 

One thing led to another and in 2015 myself and a Filipino friend started trialing a charitable project. This led to me going to the Philippines twice in 2017 (6 months total). I got married to a Filipina and lived with her family. (It is quite normal for people to live with their parents until they get married and get a house there, even into upper 20's and 30's).

 

I wasn't there for long the 2nd time and one morning (A Tuesday I think it was) I got a surprise. Turns out the local micro finance org was using my parents (in laws in western termnology) place as the weekly repayments meeting place. So I got to see first hand how it all works. Unfortunately, seeing it first hand has still not allayed my concerns about the standard micro finance model.

 

Countries like the Philippines are overloaded with things like sari saris and mobile phone repair shops like you have no idea unless you see it first hand.

 

These days I donate to Catalyst Microfranchising which is run by a New Zealander. I have not visited them but I havge conversed by email and watched their progress. Gerard seems to also be a skeptic of microfinance.

 

Another charity I recommend is Badjao Outreach Inc (official) and unofficial supporter's page with more photos which is run by an American friend who I met while in the Philippines. His name is Joseph and him and his wife were also witnesses at our wedding. I have personally walked through the Davao slums around the waterfront (Baragay 23C) and the photos he shows on his Facebook are the real deal. That is exactly what it is like and there is nothing staged nor is what is shown a small fragment for shock value.

 

Last thought - scam and dubious charities running in 3rd world countries like the Philippines is a real thing and many of them are operated by foreigners. Fake orphanages are especially common. I was tipped off about one operated by an American family. They have a nice website and say a lot of nice sounding things. But what one notices if they look carefully is the lack of detail about what they are actually doing.

 

I noticed this but was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. I wrote to them and asked if I could visit. Needless to say, they did not want me to visit.





Integrity Tech Solutions @ Norsewood, New Zealand


sonyxperiageek
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  #2131361 21-Nov-2018 23:45
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Are people still in Harmoney or slowly taking their money out? I am noticing that the platform RAR is slowly dropping month by month at the moment...





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Hammerer
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  #2131402 22-Nov-2018 00:35
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sonyxperiageek:

 

Are people still in Harmoney or slowly taking their money out? I am noticing that the platform RAR is slowly dropping month by month at the moment...

 

 

https://www.harmoney.co.nz/investors/realised-annual-return

 

A lot of lending rates aren't going up and some are going down in a similar manner to Harmoney's RAR, e.g. two year fixed rates.

 

https://www.rbnz.govt.nz/statistics/key-graphs/key-graph-mortgage-rates


Linuxluver

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  #2131570 22-Nov-2018 09:56
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sonyxperiageek:

Are people still in Harmoney or slowly taking their money out? I am noticing that the platform RAR is slowly dropping month by month at the moment...



I'm slowly taking my money out and investing it in Tesla shares via Hatch.

Harmoney don't seem to be getting many good loans and I'm not investing in poor ones. Plus I can't claim any defaults, but have to pay full tax on the interest. So once you deduct the one from the other - after tax - you're definitely best to avoid those 6.99% A1 loans.

My cash was piling up due to rewrites, so I'm giving it something else to do.

Tesla has gone up US$50 / share since I bought in.




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mattyb
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  #2131688 22-Nov-2018 11:42
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I've been wondering what's going on with Harmoney. I've had the auto-lend on and my money's been banking up with nothing to invest in. Might be time to start getting out like a few are suggesting - and doing.

 

Anyone had a go with Squirrel Money's peer-to-peer offering? Any better/worse experiences? 

 

Good idea to have a go at Hatch actually... I've signed up for it but haven't thrown any money in it yet.


 
 
 
 


kotuku4
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  #2131873 22-Nov-2018 13:57
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I had been using Squirrel for some time and getting reasonable returns 8.5% on average.

 

They have updated there systems and opened up lending platform.  Investing seems a bit slow and the returns are a bit lower at the moment.

 

 

 

I have started investing with Simplicity Funds, in a growth fund with 12-13% returns.

 

They have dropped the initial investment from $10k to $5.  And you can invest what you want form there.  Your money can be withdrawn within a few days using an emailed form.

 

Investment is monitored via a simple web site, and fund type can be changed online as required.  Takes a few days for money to show in transactions, and a few more to invest in your fund.  When I log in I can toggle to view my Kiwisaver fund and my investment fund.  





:)


mattwnz
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  #2131888 22-Nov-2018 14:11
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Has that been doing very well lately, as the sharemarket seems to have gone down quite a bit?


cristiancr
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  #2131911 22-Nov-2018 14:30
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Since May 2018 when Harmoney started investing in loans themselves, 95% of the loans have been rubbish and I wouldn't touch them with your barge-pole. It's become very time consuming in finding any good loans to invest in. It begs the question if Harmoney select the best loans for themselves to invest in.


Aaroona
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  #2222970 23-Apr-2019 23:42
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Wanted to check in and see how people are going with the Harmoney platform (and any other platforms for that matter)

 

I'm currently averaging a 12% return, have been invested for a couple of years now. 

 

Unfortunately loans are a bit hard to come by it seems- I have auto-bid turned on, but even that only gets a couple a week based on my criteria. Would definitely agree with comments above that the market has some pretty trash loans. I tend to shy away mostly from E and F grade loans. I feel like I have a good spread though. I do often log in to manage it manually when I can, to get loans that my auto-bid doesn't pick up. I like to assess certain criteria (age, location, income, repayment % vs income, living situations etc.) manually for what I consider "more risky" investments. E.g. a ~29 year old, living at home, borrowing money to go on a holiday, but has good income. I usually stay away from holiday expense loans.

 

 

 

 






geoffwnz
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  #2223000 24-Apr-2019 08:01
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Seems to have plateaued somewhat.  I stopped putting additional funds in for now as the number of loans I could pick up wasn't keeping up with the churn.  Happy to leave the funds that I've got in there rolling round as they can though.  I'm still getting around the 12% mark also.

 

If the loans pick up I'll look at putting in some more.  Basically treating it as a semi interactive term deposit though.

 

Way better than "investing" in the race car.  :-p





ANglEAUT
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  #2223047 24-Apr-2019 09:07
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Harmoney: 10.6%

 

Lending Crowd: ±10.5%

 

Squirrel: 0% Pulled out due to $500 requirement.

 

Aaroona:

 

... I like to assess certain criteria (age, location, income, repayment % vs income, living situations etc.) manually for what I consider "more risky" investments. ... I usually stay away from holiday expense loans.

 

Agreed. I've updated my auto-bid based on an article on LendingMemo.com & have been doing better ever since. The site seems a bit dated now.

 

 

 

Nectar.co.nz seems to have appeared all of a sudden, but they are only open to wholesale investors.

 

 





Please keep this GZ community vibrant by contributing in a constructive & respectful manner.


Linuxluver

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  #2232541 7-May-2019 22:44
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geoffwnz:

Seems to have plateaued somewhat.  I stopped putting additional funds in for now as the number of loans I could pick up wasn't keeping up with the churn.  Happy to leave the funds that I've got in there rolling round as they can though.  I'm still getting around the 12% mark also.

 

If the loans pick up I'll look at putting in some more.  Basically treating it as a semi interactive term deposit though.

 

Way better than "investing" in the race car.  :-p

 

 

I managed to get to about $17,000 in Harmoney.....and the churn meant it was impossible to add even $100 more.......

 

I also noted they weren't happy with the outcome of a court decision a year ago......and the numbers of loans fell off.

 

 

I've been withdrawing money as it comes free. I'm down to about $6700 now....which is another thing to keep in mind: you can't get all your money out for up to 5 years. Make sure this is detailed in any will or estate document you have. I think if you die, they may allow the estate to sell loans back to Harmoney to cash out the estate.




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Aaroona
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  #2408230 28-Jan-2020 14:35
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I've decided to start removing my funds from Harmoney - I've decided it now falls outside of my risk level to fund unsecured loans.

 

My RAR is at a respectable 11.49, still above the platform average, but I'm getting increasingly frustrated by the right offs, small bugs in the platform and am going to look at something new.

 

 

 

I know a while ago Harmoney spoke about providing a secondhand market for people to sell their stakes in loans - has anyone heard anymore about this?

 

I only have a small amount invested across about 150 loans, but would like to off-load asap.






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