Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


Filter this topic showing only the reply marked as answer View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5
ajobbins
Awesome
4891 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  #1565286 3-Jun-2016 18:16
Send private message

geekiegeek:

 

Personally, I pay a large amount of tax, and as I'm part of a two income no kids family, I get no benefit (I pay for my healthcare as well). 

 

 

Sorry, you think you get no benefit from paying tax?





Twitter: ajobbins


dejadeadnz
2398 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  #1565327 3-Jun-2016 18:45
Send private message

geekiegeek:

 

Personally, I pay a large amount of tax, and as I'm part of a two income no kids family, I get no benefit (I pay for my healthcare as well). 

 

 

The profound ignorance inherent in this statement both astounds and irritates. Benefits are not (and cannot sensibly be) defined solely as direct, transfer payments. I suggest you google the name Herbert Simon (in case you require any further hints, he's a Nobel Prize-winning economist) and what he has to say about the relevance of social capital and how much that contributes to what the average person in a rich society makes (hint: it is well north of 70%).

 

Warren Buffet was once directed quoted as essentially saying that even he wouldn't have amounted to much if he was stuck in Peru or Bangladesh. One can safely assume that man is considerably more talented than members of Geekzone - perhaps that might give you some ideas? Or think of how, were you involved in a dispute, in NZ you will almost certainly receive the assistance of a non-corrupt police officer, judge, and/or disputes tribunal referee (as required), who will very likely decide upon the merits of your case competently. And you can be sure that, generally speaking, everyone respects the rule of law, so the decision means something. Are such things not of benefit to you?

 

Before anyone is tempted to start the carry on about how this is the ranting of some poor pleb who pays no tax, let's just say we pay multiple times more in tax alone than the average person earns in a year. We are thankful however for the publically funded social goods, which belongs to all of us, plus lots of luck and a bit of hard work, for getting us to where we are.

 

 

 

 


 
 
 
 


shk292
1975 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #1565329 3-Jun-2016 18:47
Send private message

I think the cost of tertiary education should be an investment that students make in order to secure a return in the form of better earnings later.  So borrowing money to make this investment is perfectly reasonable.  If you don't back yourself to get a useful qualification, don't start the course

 

There is no such thing as "free".  It's just making someone else pay for it.


ajobbins
Awesome
4891 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  #1565382 3-Jun-2016 20:29
Send private message

shk292:

 

I think the cost of tertiary education should be an investment that students make in order to secure a return in the form of better earnings later.  So borrowing money to make this investment is perfectly reasonable.  If you don't back yourself to get a useful qualification, don't start the course

 

There is no such thing as "free".  It's just making someone else pay for it.

 

 

Society as a whole benefits from education, not just the individual.





Twitter: ajobbins


Jaxson
7116 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  #1565417 3-Jun-2016 21:50
Send private message

Peppery:

 

It's a loan, not a gift.

 

 

 

 

It's in the name, always has been.

 

 

 

No one signs up for the student gift scheme. 

 

That's called the allowance, which only genuinely poor or very well off people with family businesses get.


Geektastic
14849 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1565431 3-Jun-2016 22:57
Send private message

Sam91:
BTR:

 

shk292:

 

 

 

nathan:
Did those multinationals break the law?

No. Ok, get the law changed.

 

 

 

It's still John Key's fault - stop trying to change the subject, Dory

 

 

 

We should write off all loans until we've changed taxation law to close all loopholes.  Except loans to rich pricks, we should double the interest on those wink

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

While I agree education should be free but how are we going to afford that, will you pay an extra $100 per week to supplement this?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also how do you deal with someone that spends years at uni constantly changing their mind on what they want to study.

 



Exactly, I'm a student and I believe the current system is a good balance. Anyone can get a loan, therefore anyone can get an education. The current system holds you accountable. Make it free and you can just fart around without any consequences. Even with the current loan system, many do just that.

In saying that, certain qualifications should be heavily subsidised to address skill shortages.

 

 

 

Did people fart around with no consequences when they did not have to pay themselves (other than through general taxation of course) or would that be a modern thing?






shk292
1975 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #1565432 3-Jun-2016 22:58
Send private message

ajobbins:

 

shk292:

 

I think the cost of tertiary education should be an investment that students make in order to secure a return in the form of better earnings later.  So borrowing money to make this investment is perfectly reasonable.  If you don't back yourself to get a useful qualification, don't start the course

 

There is no such thing as "free".  It's just making someone else pay for it.

 

 

Society as a whole benefits from education, not just the individual.

 

 

Yep, which is why education, including tertiary, is hugely subsidised by the taxpayer.  But asking students to invest in their future is a reasonable compromise


 
 
 
 


Geektastic
14849 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1565433 3-Jun-2016 23:00
Send private message

geekiegeek:

 

Linuxluver:

 

MikeB4:
Linuxluver:

 

nathan:

 

 

 


Did those multinationals break the law?

No. Ok, get the law changed.

 

 

 

That's the hard part. 

Students shouldn't need to borrow money to go to Uni. John Key didn't. 

 



So you are happy to pay more tax to fund it?

 

Absolutely. Bring it on. 

 

 

Raise taxes, that will help people afford houses. 

 

While we are winding back the clock to free education we might as well bring back Muldoon, close all pubs at 11pm and put a price freeze on. Yeah lets all go back to the 70's :-)

 

 

 

 

Well, at least the music was better...! cool






geekiegeek
2509 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  #1565457 4-Jun-2016 05:34
Send private message

dejadeadnz:

 

geekiegeek:

 

Personally, I pay a large amount of tax, and as I'm part of a two income no kids family, I get no benefit (I pay for my healthcare as well). 

 

 

The profound ignorance inherent in this statement both astounds and irritates. Benefits are not (and cannot sensibly be) defined solely as direct, transfer payments. I suggest you google the name Herbert Simon (in case you require any further hints, he's a Nobel Prize-winning economist) and what he has to say about the relevance of social capital and how much that contributes to what the average person in a rich society makes (hint: it is well north of 70%).

 

Warren Buffet was once directed quoted as essentially saying that even he wouldn't have amounted to much if he was stuck in Peru or Bangladesh. One can safely assume that man is considerably more talented than members of Geekzone - perhaps that might give you some ideas? Or think of how, were you involved in a dispute, in NZ you will almost certainly receive the assistance of a non-corrupt police officer, judge, and/or disputes tribunal referee (as required), who will very likely decide upon the merits of your case competently. And you can be sure that, generally speaking, everyone respects the rule of law, so the decision means something. Are such things not of benefit to you?

 

Before anyone is tempted to start the carry on about how this is the ranting of some poor pleb who pays no tax, let's just say we pay multiple times more in tax alone than the average person earns in a year. We are thankful however for the publically funded social goods, which belongs to all of us, plus lots of luck and a bit of hard work, for getting us to where we are.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit, I get no "direct benefit", happy?





Delete Social Media

 


My thoughts are my own and are in no way representative of my employer.


nathan
5686 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Microsoft

  #1565458 4-Jun-2016 05:59
Send private message

Linuxluver:

MikeB4:
Linuxluver:


nathan:


 



Did those multinationals break the law?

No. Ok, get the law changed.


 


That's the hard part. 

Students shouldn't need to borrow money to go to Uni. John Key didn't. 




So you are happy to pay more tax to fund it?


Absolutely. Bring it on. 



Now you just need to find enough people to vote Labour/Greens in and we'll have the free education policy. My 70 year old mum always wanted to do an Arts Degree now she'll be able to.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/budget-2016/news/article.cfm?c_id=1504046&objectid=11643537

So far Labour have promised $2.7B a year additional spending = GST @ 17.5% or 45% tax rate over $70K. This is before the lolly scramble of election policies surely to be announced

Really cant see them winning promising to raise taxes




populism, the most important and misunderstood movement of our time


nathan
5686 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Microsoft

  #1565459 4-Jun-2016 06:05
Send private message

ajobbins:

shk292:


I think the cost of tertiary education should be an investment that students make in order to secure a return in the form of better earnings later.  So borrowing money to make this investment is perfectly reasonable.  If you don't back yourself to get a useful qualification, don't start the course


There is no such thing as "free".  It's just making someone else pay for it.



Society as a whole benefits from education, not just the individual.



When something is "free" you'll have bludger losers queuing up at Uni to do Bullshi@ degrees that are worthless in the real world.




populism, the most important and misunderstood movement of our time


MikeB4
15555 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user


  #1565468 4-Jun-2016 07:46
Send private message

geekiegeek:

dejadeadnz:


geekiegeek:


Personally, I pay a large amount of tax, and as I'm part of a two income no kids family, I get no benefit (I pay for my healthcare as well). 



The profound ignorance inherent in this statement both astounds and irritates. Benefits are not (and cannot sensibly be) defined solely as direct, transfer payments. I suggest you google the name Herbert Simon (in case you require any further hints, he's a Nobel Prize-winning economist) and what he has to say about the relevance of social capital and how much that contributes to what the average person in a rich society makes (hint: it is well north of 70%).


Warren Buffet was once directed quoted as essentially saying that even he wouldn't have amounted to much if he was stuck in Peru or Bangladesh. One can safely assume that man is considerably more talented than members of Geekzone - perhaps that might give you some ideas? Or think of how, were you involved in a dispute, in NZ you will almost certainly receive the assistance of a non-corrupt police officer, judge, and/or disputes tribunal referee (as required), who will very likely decide upon the merits of your case competently. And you can be sure that, generally speaking, everyone respects the rule of law, so the decision means something. Are such things not of benefit to you?


Before anyone is tempted to start the carry on about how this is the ranting of some poor pleb who pays no tax, let's just say we pay multiple times more in tax alone than the average person earns in a year. We are thankful however for the publically funded social goods, which belongs to all of us, plus lots of luck and a bit of hard work, for getting us to where we are.


 


 



Edit, I get no "direct benefit", happy?



Yes you do, think about iit

Geese
1267 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user


  #1565493 4-Jun-2016 08:52
Send private message

BTR: Also how do you deal with someone that spends years at uni constantly changing their mind on what they want to study.


A few changes have been put in place but still room for abuse:

There is now a 7 year (equivalent full time) lifetime limit on student loans. So if one dithers doing a little bit of this and that after 7 years no more loans for them.

Student allowance is limited to 200 weeks (5 years full time study). When one is over 40, it reduces to 120 weeks (3 years).

Also Canterbury for one kicks you out after 2 years of not passing half, so I guess to get past 2 years one needs to actually be going to class and doing the work.

Geese
1267 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user


  #1565510 4-Jun-2016 09:34
Send private message

mudguard: I would think that a bank would try and collect, fail, write it off after sending it Baycorp. Who fail to collect. Then after seven years it's gone. Unlike a student loan, that keeps on growing.


Bankruptcy wipes Student loans. How does this apply to overseas students? Do they have to be in NZ to declare bankruptcy? Or be resident so many days to be able to do it?

JimmyH
2695 posts

Uber Geek


  #1565511 4-Jun-2016 09:34
Send private message

The current system seems pretty fair to me. The government pays most of the tuition costs through subsidies to tertiary providers, pays allowances to people who meet age and income tests, and provides subsidised loan scheme to enable people to pay the balance of their tuition costs and living costs if they don't qualify for an allowance - which is interest-free and doesn't have to be paid back until you earn a certain level.

 

That seems like a reasonable split between the individual (who benefits from their own education) and taxpayers (recognising that society benefits from education as well). Personally, I have no appetite to pay more taxes to increase the generosity of the scheme.

 

I was certainly happy with it when I studied - although I worked all the way through to minimise the debt I ran up.

 

But fundamentally no sympathy from me for the person in question. They knowingly entered into a loan agreement, skipped the country and never made the payments they had agreed to make, and are now bleating when they are caught for doing so.

 

Try doing that with a finance company!


1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5
Filter this topic showing only the reply marked as answer View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic





News »

Nanoleaf enhances lighting line with launch of Triangles and Mini Triangles
Posted 17-Oct-2020 20:18


Synology unveils DS16211+
Posted 17-Oct-2020 20:12


Ingram Micro introduces FootfallCam to New Zealand channel
Posted 17-Oct-2020 20:06


Dropbox adopts Virtual First working policy
Posted 17-Oct-2020 19:47


OPPO announces Reno4 Series 5G line-up in NZ
Posted 16-Oct-2020 08:52


Microsoft Highway to a Hundred expands to Asia Pacific
Posted 14-Oct-2020 09:34


Spark turns on 5G in Auckland
Posted 14-Oct-2020 09:29


AMD Launches AMD Ryzen 5000 Series Desktop Processors
Posted 9-Oct-2020 10:13


Teletrac Navman launches integrated multi-camera solution for transport and logistics industry
Posted 8-Oct-2020 10:57


Farmside hits 10,000 RBI customers
Posted 7-Oct-2020 15:32


NordVPN starts deploying colocated servers
Posted 7-Oct-2020 09:00


Google introduces Nest Wifi routers in New Zealand
Posted 7-Oct-2020 05:00


Orcon to bundle Google Nest Wifi router with new accounts
Posted 7-Oct-2020 05:00


Epay and Centrapay partner to create digital gift cards
Posted 2-Oct-2020 17:34


Inseego launches 5G MiFi M2000 mobile hotspot
Posted 2-Oct-2020 14:53









Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.


Support Geekzone »

Our community of supporters help make Geekzone possible. Click the button below to join them.

Support Geezone on PressPatron



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.