Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6
mattwnz
16847 posts

Uber Geek


  #1566472 6-Jun-2016 13:51
Send private message

joker97: Why is our tax so high?


It could be lowered if everyone paid their fair share of taxes. I wonder if NZ reduced the company tax rate to slightly below Irelands, whether we could entice these overseas countries to based their headquarters for tax, in NZ. That could be a solution for NZ, but may annoy a lot of other countries.

nathan
5686 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Microsoft

  #1566501 6-Jun-2016 13:56
Send private message

ajobbins:

 

nathan:
freitasm:

 

Google, Apple, Microsoft, Adobe and others probably pay less tax in New Zealand than a lot of us around here.

 



Microsoft New Zealand reported a profit of $8.1 million on revenue of $78m, paying $3.9m in tax

 

But they are still not paying tax in NZ on a lot of the profit they make in NZ.

 

My Office365 sub is billed out of Singapore with no GST. There is a Singaporean GST number on the invoice, but like NZ , GST is zero rated on international services, and the company tax rate is about half that of NZ.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

you bought a service hosted out of Singapore not NZ

 

 

 

the NZ company tax rate is 28%, so they have in fact paid NZ tax on their NZ profits.

 

 





populism, the most important and misunderstood movement of our time


 
 
 
 


ajobbins
Awesome
4891 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  #1566559 6-Jun-2016 15:43
Send private message

nathan: you bought a service hosted out of Singapore not NZ

 

No reason Microsoft NZ couldn't bill me locally, the DC location isn't really relevant to billing. The fact of the matter is that it's tax advantageous for MS to bill me ex Singapore with a company tax rate of 17%.

 

the NZ company tax rate is 28%, so they have in fact paid NZ tax on their NZ profits.

 

Never disputed that they paid tax here, but it's a matter of fact that some of the services they sell into NZ (Like Office365) are billed out of offshore locations ultimately resulting in less tax paid by Microsoft globally.





Twitter: ajobbins


nathan
5686 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Microsoft

  #1566567 6-Jun-2016 15:56
Send private message

Tax avoidance schemes are illegal in NZ.

At the end of the day companies never pay tax, it's consumers of goods & services the company creates that are paying company tax. These companies aren't sitting there with a printing press spewing out money. Tax is built into the cost of doing business.




populism, the most important and misunderstood movement of our time


richms
23667 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  #1566568 6-Jun-2016 16:01
Send private message

I think that expecting a company like microsoft to set up an online service to be billed in any country that the buyer happens to be in is a more absurd idea. You expect them to waste time selling services from the data center company to a NZ company only for that to then be onsold to a NZ consumer. That will serve no purpose other than to jack prices up even more than they are.

 

It will be like the old importers industry where it goes thru 3 people before it is in the shop and things are 4x the price of other places since everyone wants to make profit on doing nothing but moving boxes. Except in this case there are no boxes of goods so even less reason for a NZ reseller to be involved in the transaction.

 

If you are so concerned that your suppliers are not paying enough tax, then hunt out a local IT hosting company that can provide you with what you need.

 

This isnt some elaborate tax scam, its simply an international business based in a country that has the best access to other markets and taxation structure.





Richard rich.ms

Geektastic
14848 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1566796 6-Jun-2016 22:16
Send private message

nathan: Tax avoidance schemes are illegal in NZ.

At the end of the day companies never pay tax, it's consumers of goods & services the company creates that are paying company tax. These companies aren't sitting there with a printing press spewing out money. Tax is built into the cost of doing business.

 

Bingo.






UHD

UHD
656 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user


  #1566809 6-Jun-2016 23:49
Send private message

I think an international corporation has the right to arrange its affairs in such a way as to minimise their tax burden within the law. This is the same as any of us shopping around to minimise the cost of a new smart phone or groceries.


 
 
 
 


Kiwifruta
1264 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

  #1566816 7-Jun-2016 01:07
Send private message

What type of tax are you referring to? Income tax, import duty, or GST on sales.

If you had a business here, and someone phoned you from another country and asked to buy one of your products, do you believe your business should pay income tax in the customer's country on the profits from that transaction?

Your expenses are here, your operations are here. You wouldn't go and set up a company in every country that you exported to would you? Unless it made business sense (operational, logistical, financial, etc) for you to do so.


Being that Google Play Music is available over the internet it's basically available worldwide from Ireland. So why should they go through the expense of setting up Play Music companies and data centres around the globe so they can pay income tax in local rates to each of their buyers' countries? Imagine if governments forced that upon your business?


The buyer should pay the import duties.

Regarding sales taxes (e.g. GST), where was the service performed? http://www.ird.govt.nz/ecommerce-tax/ecommerce-gst/business-australian-ecommerce-gst.html#013. The buyer pays the sales tax, the seller collects it and then is responsible for forwarding it to the buyer's tax department.


Edited to improve readability.

mattwnz
16847 posts

Uber Geek


  #1566819 7-Jun-2016 01:34
Send private message

nathan:

 

 

 

the NZ company tax rate is 28%, so they have in fact paid NZ tax on their NZ profits.

 

 

 

 

 

 

These companies do pay tax on their profits, however some use the Double Irish arrangement, due to the intellectural property being owned offshore. This page has more details. Interesting the companies who use this method.   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Irish_arrangement


mattwnz
16847 posts

Uber Geek


  #1566820 7-Jun-2016 01:42
Send private message

UHD:

 

I think an international corporation has the right to arrange its affairs in such a way as to minimise their tax burden within the law. This is the same as any of us shopping around to minimise the cost of a new smart phone or groceries.

 

 

 

 

Comparing Tax and shopping for a commodity like a phone, are two totally different things. NZers can't shop around for the best tax deal. You have to pay the IRD your tax, you can't say, well tax in Ireland is lower, so I will pay Irelands tax rate instead, because it is cheaper. Not only that but Ireland get the benefit of the money they get from the tax paid, and not NZ inc. I always think of the tax I pay, as my contribution to NZ inc, to keep it running. It is like insurance too, incase you need a helping hand by the sate for health or other needs. If everyone paid their fair share of tax, we wouldn't have the need for charities, life saving drugs would be funded, and education would likely all be funded, without the need to get a loan. Unfortunately a lot of NZs economy is now being funded by cheap debt, to overseas countries.


MikeB4
15555 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user


  #1566838 7-Jun-2016 08:15
Send private message

Increasing company tax will increase unemployment which in turn reduces the the tax take and increases Government spending. It's a fine line and a complex track to walk.

Fred99
11126 posts

Uber Geek


  #1566848 7-Jun-2016 09:12
Send private message

While countries are running deficits (only two things going on  - governments are not collecting enough tax and/or spending too much).  Company tax is set at a level in line with personal tax- else the burden of paying tax falls from wage and salary earners who can't shift income to take advantage of a lower rate.

 

I don't support the concept suggested above that "it's consumers who pay (the company tax)".  The consumers (ie citizens) will end up paying anyway, through higher personal taxes which are going to be needed in order to keep the books balanced.

 

The counter-argument that reducing company tax will be an incentive / stimulus to the economy is probably true, but there's no free lunch.  If you eliminated personal income tax, there'd be a big boost as well - it would be a darned sight cheaper to get everything done.  IMO there's very little moral difference between the concept of company tax minimisation and for example a tradesperson doing "cashies", one just happens on a local scale, the other on a global scale.

 

Global reform is needed, the IMF, World Bank argue for it - especially post GFC - but it falls on deaf ears.


Geektastic
14848 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1566876 7-Jun-2016 09:48
Send private message

mattwnz:

 

UHD:

 

I think an international corporation has the right to arrange its affairs in such a way as to minimise their tax burden within the law. This is the same as any of us shopping around to minimise the cost of a new smart phone or groceries.

 

 

 

 

Comparing Tax and shopping for a commodity like a phone, are two totally different things. NZers can't shop around for the best tax deal. You have to pay the IRD your tax, you can't say, well tax in Ireland is lower, so I will pay Irelands tax rate instead, because it is cheaper. Not only that but Ireland get the benefit of the money they get from the tax paid, and not NZ inc. I always think of the tax I pay, as my contribution to NZ inc, to keep it running. It is like insurance too, incase you need a helping hand by the sate for health or other needs. If everyone paid their fair share of tax, we wouldn't have the need for charities, life saving drugs would be funded, and education would likely all be funded, without the need to get a loan. Unfortunately a lot of NZs economy is now being funded by cheap debt, to overseas countries.

 

 

 

 

Comparing corporations and private citizens are also two totally different things....






Fred99
11126 posts

Uber Geek


  #1566894 7-Jun-2016 09:53
Send private message

Geektastic:

 

mattwnz:

 

UHD:

 

I think an international corporation has the right to arrange its affairs in such a way as to minimise their tax burden within the law. This is the same as any of us shopping around to minimise the cost of a new smart phone or groceries.

 

 

 

 

Comparing Tax and shopping for a commodity like a phone, are two totally different things. NZers can't shop around for the best tax deal. You have to pay the IRD your tax, you can't say, well tax in Ireland is lower, so I will pay Irelands tax rate instead, because it is cheaper. Not only that but Ireland get the benefit of the money they get from the tax paid, and not NZ inc. I always think of the tax I pay, as my contribution to NZ inc, to keep it running. It is like insurance too, incase you need a helping hand by the sate for health or other needs. If everyone paid their fair share of tax, we wouldn't have the need for charities, life saving drugs would be funded, and education would likely all be funded, without the need to get a loan. Unfortunately a lot of NZs economy is now being funded by cheap debt, to overseas countries.

 

 

 

 

Comparing corporations and private citizens are also two totally different things....

 

 

Really?

 

Every dictionary definition of "corporation" seems to begin with the following:

 

A corporation is a company or group of people authorized to act as a single entity (legally a person) and recognized as such in law.


jfanning
409 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #1566895 7-Jun-2016 09:53
Send private message

mattwnz:
joker97: Why is our tax so high?


It could be lowered if everyone paid their fair share of taxes. I wonder if NZ reduced the company tax rate to slightly below Irelands, whether we could entice these overseas countries to based their headquarters for tax, in NZ. That could be a solution for NZ, but may annoy a lot of other countries.

 

 

 

Ireland has the advantage that they are in the EU


1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic





News »

Nanoleaf enhances lighting line with launch of Triangles and Mini Triangles
Posted 17-Oct-2020 20:18


Synology unveils DS16211+
Posted 17-Oct-2020 20:12


Ingram Micro introduces FootfallCam to New Zealand channel
Posted 17-Oct-2020 20:06


Dropbox adopts Virtual First working policy
Posted 17-Oct-2020 19:47


OPPO announces Reno4 Series 5G line-up in NZ
Posted 16-Oct-2020 08:52


Microsoft Highway to a Hundred expands to Asia Pacific
Posted 14-Oct-2020 09:34


Spark turns on 5G in Auckland
Posted 14-Oct-2020 09:29


AMD Launches AMD Ryzen 5000 Series Desktop Processors
Posted 9-Oct-2020 10:13


Teletrac Navman launches integrated multi-camera solution for transport and logistics industry
Posted 8-Oct-2020 10:57


Farmside hits 10,000 RBI customers
Posted 7-Oct-2020 15:32


NordVPN starts deploying colocated servers
Posted 7-Oct-2020 09:00


Google introduces Nest Wifi routers in New Zealand
Posted 7-Oct-2020 05:00


Orcon to bundle Google Nest Wifi router with new accounts
Posted 7-Oct-2020 05:00


Epay and Centrapay partner to create digital gift cards
Posted 2-Oct-2020 17:34


Inseego launches 5G MiFi M2000 mobile hotspot
Posted 2-Oct-2020 14:53









Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.


Support Geekzone »

Our community of supporters help make Geekzone possible. Click the button below to join them.

Support Geezone on PressPatron



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.