Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8
Hammerer
2222 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

  #1569606 10-Jun-2016 17:18
Send private message

MikeB4:

 

Linuxluver:

 

Canada is facing the same issues around property and foreign investors...and mainly from China...and overheated housing markets in the largest cities (while other regional and smaller towns  are status or falling). 

 

In this article in Macleans magazine (sort of Canada's equivalent to Time magazine in the US or The Listener here in NZ) they talk about how Canadian banks are moving actively to cool down property lending. For much of the article you could replace "Canada" with "new Zealand" and you could be talking about them interchangeably.  

 

Note also the banks who have moved here in NZ appear to have done so in Australia either at the same time or very recently.

 

So.....this isn't just NZ. It's much bigger and wider than that. Behind it all are the central banks and their concern over debt levels and lending and rapidly-rising property prices in a context where - they know - most of the rest of these economies is on shakey ground.

 

No conspiracy here......just neo-liberalism heading for the same cliff everywhere. 

 

As citizens and voters we have the opportunity every few years to chose who should be the government. It seems staringly obvious that to continue to elect governments with a neo-liberal economic agenda verges on the insane. Canada woke up and dumped it's Conservatives recently. The Australians are having an election shortly. The UK re- elected - thanks to First Past the Post - a conservative government that 65% of voters didn't vote for.....so clearly, they tried, but the voting system meant they just couldn't do it even if almost 2/3s of voters didn't want the Tories. 

 

Our turn next year. More of this destructive nonsense? haven't we had enough since 1984? 

 

So the crisis-du-jour is property. Or is is climate change? Or maybe growing income inequality? Burgeoning debt? The list goes. 

 

 

Over my many many decades on this rock I have only experienced a few years of financial stability in NZ. As a National supporter I often how successful this financial system we have really is and often doubt does the West have it wrong.

 

 

I'm not really sure what you both are saying in relation to the credit policies of banks.


MikeB4
15555 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user


  #1569609 10-Jun-2016 17:23
Send private message

mattwnz:

MikeB4:


 


Over my many many decades on this rock I have only experienced a few years of financial stability in NZ. As a National supporter I often how successful this financial system we have really is and often doubt does the West have it wrong.



 


But do you actually understand it, and how borrowing keeps going up and up. Very few people do understand the whole thing, even financial experts I don't think understand it, as 50% of them say one thing, and 50% say the opposite. 



David Lange described those involved in the financial sector as being like "demented reef fish" his description was accurate so that fits well with the unfathomable financial sector.

 
 
 
 


MikeB4
15555 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user


  #1569612 10-Jun-2016 17:28
Send private message

Hammerer:

MikeB4:


Linuxluver:


Canada is facing the same issues around property and foreign investors...and mainly from China...and overheated housing markets in the largest cities (while other regional and smaller towns  are status or falling). 


In this article in Macleans magazine (sort of Canada's equivalent to Time magazine in the US or The Listener here in NZ) they talk about how Canadian banks are moving actively to cool down property lending. For much of the article you could replace "Canada" with "new Zealand" and you could be talking about them interchangeably.  


Note also the banks who have moved here in NZ appear to have done so in Australia either at the same time or very recently.


So.....this isn't just NZ. It's much bigger and wider than that. Behind it all are the central banks and their concern over debt levels and lending and rapidly-rising property prices in a context where - they know - most of the rest of these economies is on shakey ground.


No conspiracy here......just neo-liberalism heading for the same cliff everywhere. 


As citizens and voters we have the opportunity every few years to chose who should be the government. It seems staringly obvious that to continue to elect governments with a neo-liberal economic agenda verges on the insane. Canada woke up and dumped it's Conservatives recently. The Australians are having an election shortly. The UK re- elected - thanks to First Past the Post - a conservative government that 65% of voters didn't vote for.....so clearly, they tried, but the voting system meant they just couldn't do it even if almost 2/3s of voters didn't want the Tories. 


Our turn next year. More of this destructive nonsense? haven't we had enough since 1984? 


So the crisis-du-jour is property. Or is is climate change? Or maybe growing income inequality? Burgeoning debt? The list goes. 



Over my many many decades on this rock I have only experienced a few years of financial stability in NZ. As a National supporter I often how successful this financial system we have really is and often doubt does the West have it wrong.



I'm not really sure what you both are saying in relation to the credit policies of banks.



The banks are promoting their actions as being altruistic I am sceptical as it is out of character.

Fred99
11112 posts

Uber Geek


  #1569615 10-Jun-2016 17:31
Send private message

mattwnz:

 

MikeB4:

 

 

 

Over my many many decades on this rock I have only experienced a few years of financial stability in NZ. As a National supporter I often how successful this financial system we have really is and often doubt does the West have it wrong.

 

 

 

 

But do you actually understand it, and how borrowing keeps going up and up. Very few people do understand the whole thing, even financial experts I don't think understand it, as 50% of them say one thing, and 50% say the opposite. 

 

 

 

 

Half of the published "expert" comments in the media are from bank economists and real estate executives or investors.  Not in your wildest dreams are they impartial.

 

Impartial experts show a bit more consensus - that we've let this go too long, that it's going to fail, and it's really going to hurt when it does.


geekiegeek
2502 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  #1569617 10-Jun-2016 17:34
Send private message

Linuxluver:

 

Canada is facing the same issues around property and foreign investors...and mainly from China...and overheated housing markets in the largest cities (while other regional and smaller towns  are status or falling). 

 

In this article in Macleans magazine (sort of Canada's equivalent to Time magazine in the US or The Listener here in NZ) they talk about how Canadian banks are moving actively to cool down property lending. For much of the article you could replace "Canada" with "new Zealand" and you could be talking about them interchangeably.  

 

Note also the banks who have moved here in NZ appear to have done so in Australia either at the same time or very recently.

 

So.....this isn't just NZ. It's much bigger and wider than that. Behind it all are the central banks and their concern over debt levels and lending and rapidly-rising property prices in a context where - they know - most of the rest of these economies is on shakey ground.

 

No conspiracy here......just neo-liberalism heading for the same cliff everywhere. 

 

As citizens and voters we have the opportunity every few years to chose who should be the government. It seems staringly obvious that to continue to elect governments with a neo-liberal economic agenda verges on the insane. Canada woke up and dumped it's Conservatives recently. The Australians are having an election shortly. The UK re- elected - thanks to First Past the Post - a conservative government that 65% of voters didn't vote for.....so clearly, they tried, but the voting system meant they just couldn't do it even if almost 2/3s of voters didn't want the Tories. 

 

Our turn next year. More of this destructive nonsense? haven't we had enough since 1984? 

 

So the crisis-du-jour is property. Or is is climate change? Or maybe growing income inequality? Burgeoning debt? The list goes. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To be fair, I'm not seeing a silver bullet from the opposition that will fix this or am I missing something?





Delete Social Media

 


My thoughts are my own and are in no way representative of my employer.


MikeB4
15555 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user


  #1569622 10-Jun-2016 17:41
Send private message

Fred99:

mattwnz:


MikeB4:


 


Over my many many decades on this rock I have only experienced a few years of financial stability in NZ. As a National supporter I often how successful this financial system we have really is and often doubt does the West have it wrong.



 


But do you actually understand it, and how borrowing keeps going up and up. Very few people do understand the whole thing, even financial experts I don't think understand it, as 50% of them say one thing, and 50% say the opposite. 



 


Half of the published "expert" comments in the media are from bank economists and real estate executives or investors.  Not in your wildest dreams are they impartial.


Impartial experts show a bit more consensus - that we've let this go too long, that it's going to fail, and it's really going to hurt when it does.



^^^
Yep

MikeB4
15555 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user


  #1569624 10-Jun-2016 17:44
Send private message

geekiegeek:

Linuxluver:


Canada is facing the same issues around property and foreign investors...and mainly from China...and overheated housing markets in the largest cities (while other regional and smaller towns  are status or falling). 


In this article in Macleans magazine (sort of Canada's equivalent to Time magazine in the US or The Listener here in NZ) they talk about how Canadian banks are moving actively to cool down property lending. For much of the article you could replace "Canada" with "new Zealand" and you could be talking about them interchangeably.  


Note also the banks who have moved here in NZ appear to have done so in Australia either at the same time or very recently.


So.....this isn't just NZ. It's much bigger and wider than that. Behind it all are the central banks and their concern over debt levels and lending and rapidly-rising property prices in a context where - they know - most of the rest of these economies is on shakey ground.


No conspiracy here......just neo-liberalism heading for the same cliff everywhere. 


As citizens and voters we have the opportunity every few years to chose who should be the government. It seems staringly obvious that to continue to elect governments with a neo-liberal economic agenda verges on the insane. Canada woke up and dumped it's Conservatives recently. The Australians are having an election shortly. The UK re- elected - thanks to First Past the Post - a conservative government that 65% of voters didn't vote for.....so clearly, they tried, but the voting system meant they just couldn't do it even if almost 2/3s of voters didn't want the Tories. 


Our turn next year. More of this destructive nonsense? haven't we had enough since 1984? 


So the crisis-du-jour is property. Or is is climate change? Or maybe growing income inequality? Burgeoning debt? The list goes. 


 


 


 



 


To be fair, I'm not seeing a silver bullet from the opposition that will fix this or am I missing something?



To be fair the only real difference between Labour and National is one letter. So a silver bullet is yet to be found.

 
 
 
 


Batman
Mad Scientist
23049 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1569627 10-Jun-2016 17:49
Send private message

mattwnz:

 

MikeB4:

 

 

 

Over my many many decades on this rock I have only experienced a few years of financial stability in NZ. As a National supporter I often how successful this financial system we have really is and often doubt does the West have it wrong.

 

 

 

 

But do you actually understand it, and how borrowing keeps going up and up. Very few people do understand the whole thing, even financial experts I don't think understand it, as 50% of them say one thing, and 50% say the opposite. 

 

 

Economists are like palm readers, and even meteorologists.

 

Nobody knows the future with infinite variables. With one variable, yes can easily predict.

 

It's very common to see two Herald articles side by side one saying house price going up the other saying house price going down! The up is usually a real estate agent, the down is usually economist, and they've been doing that since 2003. 13 years later ... give it a huge amount of time and eventually one of them will get it right.





Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


JimmyH
2695 posts

Uber Geek


  #1569649 10-Jun-2016 18:05
Send private message

joker97:

 

Economists are like palm readers, and even meteorologists.

 

Nobody knows the future with infinite variables. With one variable, yes can easily predict.

 

 

That's a little unfair, and pretty much setting up a strawman so you can knock it down.

 

Reputable economists don't claim to be able to predict the future with anything like certainty, and certainly not very far ahead. I'm not aware that they have ever done so. There are too many imponderables - human behaviour, things that happen offshore, the weather (eg a bad harvest). But they do have a pretty good feel for the proximate effects of many policies and the causes of growth etc. They are also pretty good at extrapolating trends based on assumptions and making general statements about whether something is sustainable or a policy change is needed. For example, what will happen to spuerannuation expenses over thirty years IF longevity continues to increase and policy settings aren't changed.

 

By reputable I mean qualified, experienced, and not working for a bank or political party (of any persuasion) where they are essentially running PR for their paymaster rather than giving unbiased opinion/advice.

 

 

It's very common to see two Herald articles side by side one saying house price going up the other saying house price going down! The up is usually a real estate agent, the down is usually economist, and they've been doing that since 2003. 13 years later ... give it a huge amount of time and eventually one of them will get it right.

 

 

You are confusing the Herald with an actual newspaper, that has reporters who have the time and competence to distinguish fact from fiction, and runs factual stories.

 

The Herald mainly just runs whatever clickbait it can source cheaply or for free to fill space and get you to follow the link. Which means that it will run pretty much anything it is handed by anyone purporting to have knowledge, irrespective of qualifications or partisanship. See point about reputable above. I'm only surprised I haven't (yet) seen a link telling me inviting me to click because I will be SHOCKED to haer what Kim Kardsahian said about economic stability when the Reserve Bank didn't move interest rates. Stuff is no better.

 

Usually I first look at who wrote something before I decide whether it's worth reading. Pro-government, anti-government, and lobbyist puff pieces aren't typically worth the paper they are printed on. Mostly, it's obvious whether an opinion is garbage if you know who the writer works for, and whether they are actually qualified in the subject.


oxnsox
1923 posts

Uber Geek


  #1569736 10-Jun-2016 20:05
Send private message

geekiegeek:

Linuxluver:


Canada is facing the same issues around property and foreign investors...and mainly from China...and overheated housing markets in the largest cities (while other regional and smaller towns  are status or falling). 


In this article in Macleans magazine (sort of Canada's equivalent to Time magazine in the US or The Listener here in NZ) they talk about how Canadian banks are moving actively to cool down property lending. For much of the article you could replace "Canada" with "new Zealand" and you could be talking about them interchangeably.  


Note also the banks who have moved here in NZ appear to have done so in Australia either at the same time or very recently.


So.....this isn't just NZ. It's much bigger and wider than that. Behind it all are the central banks and their concern over debt levels and lending and rapidly-rising property prices in a context where - they know - most of the rest of these economies is on shakey ground.


No conspiracy here......just neo-liberalism heading for the same cliff everywhere. 


As citizens and voters we have the opportunity every few years to chose who should be the government. It seems staringly obvious that to continue to elect governments with a neo-liberal economic agenda verges on the insane. Canada woke up and dumped it's Conservatives recently. The Australians are having an election shortly. The UK re- elected - thanks to First Past the Post - a conservative government that 65% of voters didn't vote for.....so clearly, they tried, but the voting system meant they just couldn't do it even if almost 2/3s of voters didn't want the Tories. 


Our turn next year. More of this destructive nonsense? haven't we had enough since 1984? 


So the crisis-du-jour is property. Or is is climate change? Or maybe growing income inequality? Burgeoning debt? The list goes. 


 


 


 



 


To be fair, I'm not seeing a silver bullet from the opposition
that will fix this or am I missing something?


Because there is no 'silver-bullet'
Whilst other countries are having similar issues, do any of them have the same chronic undersupply which is being turbo driven by unprecedented immigration. I doubt any arrangement of any government would have foreseen this...... and its not an issue with an overnight answer, if only because of build times.
But it would be nice to see some income ratio introduced, along with a mechanism to control rental prices.
If rental prices were restricted (and locked to annual increases tied to the CPI), house price increases would be driven more by supply demand rather than investor returns. Combine that with LVRs &income ratios, and eventually things will even out.......
But I guess that will also happen with the current model, the difference being in who will wear the pain, and when.

logo
472 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

  #1569765 10-Jun-2016 21:05
Send private message

MikeB4:

The banks are promoting their actions as being altruistic I am sceptical as it is out of character.

 

 

 

Likely doing it before the Reserve Bank steps in and places restrictions on the banks. This way they have more control on the policies and when they can relax them.

 

I doubt the RBNZ is now going to introduce income ratio caps for the time being.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Geektastic
14835 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1569799 10-Jun-2016 22:15
Send private message

oxnsox:
geekiegeek:

 

Linuxluver:

 

 

 

Canada is facing the same issues around property and foreign investors...and mainly from China...and overheated housing markets in the largest cities (while other regional and smaller towns  are status or falling). 

 

 

 

In this article in Macleans magazine (sort of Canada's equivalent to Time magazine in the US or The Listener here in NZ) they talk about how Canadian banks are moving actively to cool down property lending. For much of the article you could replace "Canada" with "new Zealand" and you could be talking about them interchangeably.  

 

 

 

Note also the banks who have moved here in NZ appear to have done so in Australia either at the same time or very recently.

 

 

 

So.....this isn't just NZ. It's much bigger and wider than that. Behind it all are the central banks and their concern over debt levels and lending and rapidly-rising property prices in a context where - they know - most of the rest of these economies is on shakey ground.

 

 

 

No conspiracy here......just neo-liberalism heading for the same cliff everywhere. 

 

 

 

As citizens and voters we have the opportunity every few years to chose who should be the government. It seems staringly obvious that to continue to elect governments with a neo-liberal economic agenda verges on the insane. Canada woke up and dumped it's Conservatives recently. The Australians are having an election shortly. The UK re- elected - thanks to First Past the Post - a conservative government that 65% of voters didn't vote for.....so clearly, they tried, but the voting system meant they just couldn't do it even if almost 2/3s of voters didn't want the Tories. 

 

 

 

Our turn next year. More of this destructive nonsense? haven't we had enough since 1984? 

 

 

 

So the crisis-du-jour is property. Or is is climate change? Or maybe growing income inequality? Burgeoning debt? The list goes. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To be fair, I'm not seeing a silver bullet from the opposition
that will fix this or am I missing something?

 


Because there is no 'silver-bullet'
Whilst other countries are having similar issues, do any of them have the same chronic undersupply which is being turbo driven by unprecedented immigration. I doubt any arrangement of any government would have foreseen this...... and its not an issue with an overnight answer, if only because of build times.
But it would be nice to see some income ratio introduced, along with a mechanism to control rental prices.
If rental prices were restricted (and locked to annual increases tied to the CPI), house price increases would be driven more by supply demand rather than investor returns. Combine that with LVRs &income ratios, and eventually things will even out.......
But I guess that will also happen with the current model, the difference being in who will wear the pain, and when.

 

 

 

There are build systems available in the world that would cut house construction times by 80%. We just do not use them, by and large. See for example this video. They will provide more than adequate seismic, fire and insulation properties if appropriately specified.






mentalinc
2042 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  #1569802 10-Jun-2016 22:25
Send private message

Geektastic:

 

 

 

There are build systems available in the world that would cut house construction times by 80%. We just do not use them, by and large. See for example this video. They will provide more than adequate seismic, fire and insulation properties if appropriately specified.

 

 

 

 

You are joking right?

 

They built a concrete block shell 23m sq room in three hours. There is only 1 room plus a "bathroom". No roof, no plumbing etc. I'm sure the standard retaining wall blocks could do the same thing...

 

It's a great to start replacing shanty towns but will be sad to see these popping up any where in NZ.





CPU: Intel 3770k| RAM: F3-2400C10D-16GTX G.Skill Trident X |MB:  Gigabyte Z77X-UD5H-WB | GFX: GV-N660OC-2GD gv-n660oc-2gd GeForce GTX 660 | Monitor: Qnix 27" 2560x1440

 

 


Geektastic
14835 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1569806 10-Jun-2016 22:44
Send private message

mentalinc:

 

Geektastic:

 

 

 

There are build systems available in the world that would cut house construction times by 80%. We just do not use them, by and large. See for example this video. They will provide more than adequate seismic, fire and insulation properties if appropriately specified.

 

 

 

 

You are joking right?

 

They built a concrete block shell 23m sq room in three hours. There is only 1 room plus a "bathroom". No roof, no plumbing etc. I'm sure the standard retaining wall blocks could do the same thing...

 

It's a great to start replacing shanty towns but will be sad to see these popping up any where in NZ.

 

 

 

 

Yes, I can see you grasped the concept fully there....

 

That was called a "demonstration". It's not a completed home, it is a shell ready for pumping the concrete into. The rest of it comes later. The video is designed to show the speed with which a building can be erected compared to traditional systems. You will need to extrapolate the additional time required for bigger buildings, site work, fixtures and fittings and so on.

 

The point is, you need not wait 8 months for a bunch of half-educated cowboys with nail guns to mess about on site building a large garden shed made of flammable materials that will probably leak, with a roof made of the same material pig sheds are made of.






MikeB4
15555 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user


  #1569807 10-Jun-2016 22:51
Send private message

Geektastic:

mentalinc:


Geektastic:


 


There are build systems available in the world that would cut house construction times by 80%. We just do not use them, by and large. See for example this video. They will provide more than adequate seismic, fire and insulation properties if appropriately specified.



 


You are joking right?


They built a concrete block shell 23m sq room in three hours. There is only 1 room plus a "bathroom". No roof, no plumbing etc. I'm sure the standard retaining wall blocks could do the same thing...


It's a great to start replacing shanty towns but will be sad to see these popping up any where in NZ.



 


Yes, I can see you grasped the concept fully there....


That was called a "demonstration". It's not a completed home, it is a shell ready for pumping the concrete into. The rest of it comes later. The video is designed to show the speed with which a building can be erected compared to traditional systems. You will need to extrapolate the additional time required for bigger buildings, site work, fixtures and fittings and so on.


The point is, you need not wait 8 months for a bunch of half-educated cowboys with nail guns to mess about on site building a large garden shed made of flammable materials that will probably leak, with a roof made of the same material pig sheds are made of.



It does baffle me that the Germans can construct a house in a few weeks and it takes months here and ends up needing months of remedial work. And cost heaps more after exchange rate differences etc.I know about the code differences but it still does not add up. House building is minefield and it does not need to be.

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic





News »

Nanoleaf enhances lighting line with launch of Triangles and Mini Triangles
Posted 17-Oct-2020 20:18


Synology unveils DS1621+ 
Posted 17-Oct-2020 20:12


Ingram Micro introduces FootfallCam to New Zealand channel
Posted 17-Oct-2020 20:06


Dropbox adopts Virtual First working policy
Posted 17-Oct-2020 19:47


OPPO announces Reno4 Series 5G line-up in NZ
Posted 16-Oct-2020 08:52


Microsoft Highway to a Hundred expands to Asia Pacific
Posted 14-Oct-2020 09:34


Spark turns on 5G in Auckland
Posted 14-Oct-2020 09:29


AMD Launches AMD Ryzen 5000 Series Desktop Processors
Posted 9-Oct-2020 10:13


Teletrac Navman launches integrated multi-camera solution for transport and logistics industry
Posted 8-Oct-2020 10:57


Farmside hits 10,000 RBI customers
Posted 7-Oct-2020 15:32


NordVPN starts deploying colocated servers
Posted 7-Oct-2020 09:00


Google introduces Nest Wifi routers in New Zealand
Posted 7-Oct-2020 05:00


Orcon to bundle Google Nest Wifi router with new accounts
Posted 7-Oct-2020 05:00


Epay and Centrapay partner to create digital gift cards
Posted 2-Oct-2020 17:34


Inseego launches 5G MiFi M2000 mobile hotspot
Posted 2-Oct-2020 14:53









Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.


Support Geekzone »

Our community of supporters help make Geekzone possible. Click the button below to join them.

Support Geezone on PressPatron



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.