Rikkitic:

 

It is quality, not quantity. The questions get bigger, and that is what makes it interesting.

 

Or both ...

Accroding to the Charities service of NZ an organisation can qualify as tax exempt charity if it engages in

1) relief of poverty
2) advancement of education
3) advancement of religion
4) Other purposes beneficial to the community

I would like to see (3) removed.  I don't think being a religion should automatically qualify an organisation for a tax exemption.

Religious organisation that wish to engage in genuinely charitable works should still be able to qualify under (1), if they set up a subsidiary for charitable work.  Only funds actually spent on charity should be tax deductible, but the mainstay of religious activity shouldn't.

(2) needs some work as well, but that's a whole other issue.

MikeB4:

 

dafman:

 

MikeB4: So you are saying you know more than IRD and auditors etc

 

Nope, just checked, double-checked, what I wrote, and nowhere did I say that I knew more than IRD and auditors etc

 

I did ask, in the absence of being able to review a set of their audited accounts, how do we know they are not milking their not-for-profit tax-free status? Just a little bit of financial transparency would be nice - you know, just like the big tax-paying corporates are required to do.

 

If you do happen to have a set of audited financials for Sanitarium, I'd love to see a copy. I've had a look on their website and all I can find is a reference to 1 Genesis 1:29 which doesn't exactly help.

 

Certainly the Herald have asked the question in the past:

 

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10816412

 

 

 

 

 

 

They have to meet legislative criteria in order to gain the tax exemption. That is a matter between them and the IRD.

 

You've gone on a tangent I don't understand.

So I'll simply say, of course they have to meet current legislative criteria in order to gain the tax exemption; that's not this discussion. This discussion is should the legislative criteria be changed so that they lose the exemption. I say, and have been saying in all previous posts, yes.

dafman:

 

MikeB4:

 

dafman:

 

MikeB4: So you are saying you know more than IRD and auditors etc

 

Nope, just checked, double-checked, what I wrote, and nowhere did I say that I knew more than IRD and auditors etc

 

I did ask, in the absence of being able to review a set of their audited accounts, how do we know they are not milking their not-for-profit tax-free status? Just a little bit of financial transparency would be nice - you know, just like the big tax-paying corporates are required to do.

 

If you do happen to have a set of audited financials for Sanitarium, I'd love to see a copy. I've had a look on their website and all I can find is a reference to 1 Genesis 1:29 which doesn't exactly help.

 

Certainly the Herald have asked the question in the past:

 

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10816412

 

 

 

 

 

 

They have to meet legislative criteria in order to gain the tax exemption. That is a matter between them and the IRD.

 

 

You've gone on a tangent I don't understand.

 

So I'll simply say, of course they have to meet current legislative criteria in order to gain the tax exemption; that's not this discussion. This discussion is should the legislative criteria be changed so that they lose the exemption. I say, and have been saying in all previous posts, yes.

 

No I am not you stated .......

"Further - how do you know Sanitarium are not making a 'profit'? Have you reviewed a set of their audited financial statements recently? Oops, that's right, they don't have to provide these. They could be raking it in from their 'not-for-profit tax-free status' and none of us would be any the wiser."

and this

"Nope, just checked, double-checked, what I wrote, and nowhere did I say that I knew more than IRD and auditors etc

I did ask, in the absence of being able to review a set of their audited accounts, how do we know they are not milking their not-for-profit tax-free status? Just a little bit of financial transparency would be nice - you know, just like the big tax-paying corporates are required to do.

If you do happen to have a set of audited financials for Sanitarium, I'd love to see a copy. I've had a look on their website and all I can find is a reference to 1 Genesis 1:29 which doesn't exactly help.

Hence my posts regarding them and IRD. They do not need to make them public the same as you do not need to make your tax record public.

MikeAqua:

 

Accroding to the Charities service of NZ an organisation can qualify as tax exempt charity if it engages in

 

1) relief of poverty
2) advancement of education
3) advancement of religion
4) Other purposes beneficial to the community

 

I would like to see (3) removed.  I don't think being a religion should automatically qualify an organisation for a tax exemption.

 

Religious organisation that wish to engage in genuinely charitable works should still be able to qualify under (1), if they set up a subsidiary for charitable work.  Only funds actually spent on charity should be tax deductible, but the mainstay of religious activity shouldn't.

 

(2) needs some work as well, but that's a whole other issue.

 

So upliftment of moral standard is not a charitable thing? "beneficial to the community"?

I think all Religion(s) have a 'giving' nature and promote giving at a a fundamental level, so even if you don't believe in God, you surely believe in a high moral standard, and very few nations of the entire planet have issue with most of the basic "commandments" (shall not steal, shall not bear false witness, Honour your Parents, Shall not commit Adultery, shall not covet etc.)

So other than the actual belief in God, and the non violent worship of Him (in my own time and place) what exactly is it that you have against religion in general?

If proselytising (preaching) is your issue, why aren't you up in arms about advertising and sports promotion too? 

PhantomNVD:

 

 

 

So upliftment of moral standard is not a charitable thing? "beneficial to the community"?

 

I think all Religion(s) have a 'giving' nature and promote giving at a a fundamental level, so even if you don't believe in God, you surely believe in a high moral standard, and very few nations of the entire planet have issue with most of the basic "commandments" (shall not steal, shall not bear false witness, Honour your Parents, Shall not commit Adultery, shall not covet etc.)

 

So other than the actual belief in God, and the non violent worship of Him (in my own time and place) what exactly is it that you have against religion in general?

 

If proselytising (preaching) is your issue, why aren't you up in arms about advertising and sports promotion too? 

 

This is a discussion that probably belongs elsewhere, but I can't let this go completely unchallenged. The 'giving nature' and 'high moral standard' of the Catholic church encompasses a rich history of torture, murder, intolerance and persecution from the Crusades onwards. Ancient history that has no relevance today? What about all those moral priests using children as playthings? Maybe other religions are better in the morality department? Let's see, Islamic State has made an art form of beheadings and other particularly brutal forms of murder so I guess Islam can't really claim the high ground. What about the Hindus? It seems they have been doing a little murdering of their own lately, all in the name of religion of course. I guess that leaves the Buddhists. Oh wait, haven't they been massacring Muslims in Burma?  

Of course there are religious groups that do live according to high moral standards, just as there are non-religious groups that do exactly the same. Morality and giving have nothing to do with religion. They have everything to do with the innate sense of decency and compassion empathetic human beings feel and express, not because they fear some mythological divine punishment, but because they know the difference between right and wrong. You don't need religion for that. You are probably better off without it.

People can believe whatever they like, but don't try to tell me it gives them elevated morality.

Rikkitic:

 

People can believe whatever they like, but don't try to tell me it gives them elevated morality.

 

So I can believe it, but just make sure you don't find out?

PhantomNVD:

 

 

 

So upliftment of moral standard is not a charitable thing? "beneficial to the community"?

 

I think all Religion(s) have a 'giving' nature and promote giving at a a fundamental level, so even if you don't believe in God, you surely believe in a high moral standard, and very few nations of the entire planet have issue with most of the basic "commandments" (shall not steal, shall not bear false witness, Honour your Parents, Shall not commit Adultery, shall not covet etc.)

 

"Upliftment of moral standard" is a completely different thing from religion. Destiny Church is an excellent example. And also the exception to your 'giving nature' rule.

 

So other than the actual belief in God, and the non violent worship of Him (in my own time and place) what exactly is it that you have against religion in general?

 

I don't know who the "you" is in your question. From my PoV, promoting the certainty of God's existence is false, and fundamentally wrong. Secondly, religion is widely used as a way of controlling people, and extracting money from them. Again, Destiny Church is a great example, but not that different from (e.g.) the Catholic church.

 

If proselytising (preaching) is your issue, why aren't you up in arms about advertising and sports promotion too? 

 

I'm not up in arms about anything. But I am also opposed to advertising/marketing. Not sure what you mean by sports promotion.

MikeB4: Why do non believers preach as much as they do?

My beliefs are private, I am happy to allow others to have their section 13 .

We are simply making use of our section 14 rights.

MikeB4:

 

sbiddle:

 

MikeB4: I can tell you from someone who has worked in social services both professionally and volunteer NZ would heavily screwed if it were not for the church based and other charity groups. I get very angry at some of the uninformed posts on this subject and they lead me to believe they are by folks that have little idea of what these organisations do and even what a charity is.

Some folks really need to get the blinkers off and and have a real look around them.

With that flame away at me

 

Should Sanitarium have to pay tax?

 

 

 

 

 

 

You tell me....

 

 

 

 

 

"Sanitarium Health & Wellbeing Company was established by the Seventh-day Adventist Church in New Zealand over 100 years ago to promote and produce plant-based health foods. This is based on the Church's belief that plant-based diets are designated by God, our Creator, for the health of the human race.1 Worldwide, the Church operates health food industries and health-care services based on this philosophy.

 

Sanitarium’s enduring mission is to “inspire and resource our community to experience happy, healthy lives”. As such the Seventh-day Adventist Church and Sanitarium continue to share an explicit common reason and purpose of existence.

 

Sanitarium is a leader in producing foods of the highest nutritional value and appeal. The Sanitarium Nutrition Service provids unbiased advice to our consumers. This service dates back to the early 1900s, when cooking classes and nutrition lectures were held throughout New Zealand. 

 

In relation to Sanitarium's tax status, it is important to note:

 

•  

  Sanitarium is 100% New Zealand owned and proud to be a part of New Zealand’s essential charitable sector.

   

•  

  Sanitarium operates exclusively for charitable purposes in New Zealand

   

•  

  As an organisation that operates as a charity Sanitarium is exempt from certain business income taxes. It pays all other forms of tax that apply to New Zealand companies.

   

•  

  Sanitarium does not hold a preferential position as a consequence of it charitable taxation status.

   

•  

  Income tax exemptions are available to all companies and individuals in New Zealand who limit themselves to charitable purposes, are registered as charities and otherwise qualify for such exemptions.

   

•  

  Sanitarium contributes to New Zealand’s economy through the employment of more than 250 employees throughout New Zealand including at its factory and head office in Auckland.

   

•  

  Sanitarium invests in the promotion of community health and wellbeing through the annual Weet-Bix Kids TRYathlon, which over 300,000 children have participated in throughout the 24 years of the series

   

•  

  Sanitarium helps kids get the good start they deserve with the Kick Start Breakfast Club, presented in partnership with Fonterra. Sanitarium provides free school breakfasts to over 890 New Zealand schools in a community partnership model, with more than 125,000 breakfasts provided each week.

   

•  

  Through Sanitarium, the Church is able to offer support to a number of community based projects including the Turn Your Life Around community programme that teaches “at risk” children life skills and about responsibility; and the STARS youth development programme aimed at developing the skills, motivations and goals of young New Zealander

   

•  

  QuitNow - aimed at helping people quit smoking and adopt a healthier lifestyle;

   

•  

  World Vision NZ – assisting young New Zealanders participate in World Vision projects;

   

•  

  ADRA Charity Fun Run – raising money for ADRA’s projects both nationally and internationally, and many family services and other community-based projects."

   

So pretty much nobody should pay tax providing they're willing to donate some of their income or business profits to a charity or good cause?

sbiddle:

 

 

 

 

 

So pretty much nobody should pay tax providing they're willing to donate some of their income or business profits to a charity or good cause?

 

 

 

A selective response somewhat.

If the provisions of the legislation are being met then tax liability is adjusted. Read the information regarding Sanitarium and it is obvious why they meet the legal requirements.

You know people go on about this Tamaki guy - there was a leaked recording of an Auckland imam preaching actual hate in a mosque ... now my question is two-fold

1. Is anything be done about that chap

2. How many other imams not had their preachings leaked

It's a matter of time before ....