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networkn
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  #1674565 20-Nov-2016 16:33
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It's amazing to me that people blame Religion for crazy acts of terror and violence. If it wasn't for Religion do you think these things would not occur at all? Evil people will behave badly regardless, Religion is just one such thing to lean on as an excuse. 

 

I myself whilst raised in religion am no longer religious as such, but the base of what I learned have put me in good stead for the way I live my life. I do accept some people do live equal lives without that basis.


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Batman
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  #1674624 20-Nov-2016 19:19
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frankv:

 

deadlyllama:

 

My old church in Wellington sent money overseas, to support missionaries who were originally members of that church.

 

 

Not a great example in the current context... sending money overseas to further the aims of the Church (i.e. convince more people to join) is hardly a charitable act.

 

 

 

 

You don't know. All of the ones I know of are overseas to cater for the needs of the poor, the invisible, the untoucables.

 

Eg - slums in India, refuge houses in Cambodia/Myanmar/Thailand for boys and girls who have been sold as labour slaves and sex slaves - these guys buy them and house them, or just house those who managed to escape, give them an education and a future, makes me sick and sad. THere are also those who work in orphanages where drunk and stoned parents just leave their infants because they were not wanted, or they were too poor to care for them. Oh how I wish I could go and rescue every one of those. Also makes me even more sick because I also have kids.

 

I hear a lot of counter arguments about oh how we also have the needy in the local areas. Nothing compared to these, not even close. But yes I agree there are the needy everywhere. Inc Trump land. And God's own.





Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


sxz

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  #1674640 20-Nov-2016 19:48
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If churches wanted to do good they would pay tax.




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  #1674647 20-Nov-2016 20:01
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sxz:

 

If churches wanted to do good they would pay tax.

 

 

Yeah so we can have a second flag referendum and build another Team NZ boat for when it snaps.





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  #1674648 20-Nov-2016 20:06
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sxz:

If churches wanted to do good they would pay tax.



How would Salvation Army do good if a chunk of the donations they receive goes to taxes?

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  #1674689 20-Nov-2016 21:17
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MikeB4:
sxz:

 

If churches wanted to do good they would pay tax. 



How would Salvation Army do good if a chunk of the donations they receive goes to taxes?

 

A question which encompasses so much.

 

At the end of the day you can't selectively strip one religious organisation of it's tax exemption and leave the others. It's an all or nothing situation. The only alternative would be to have Destiny stripped of it's religious organisation status - attempting that would tie the Government up for years in the Courts so it ain't gonna happen. Same with stripping all religious organisations of tax free status - years of litigation along with an iron clad guarantee for whomever is in power that they'll lose the next election.

 

Disclaimer: I haven't bothered reading through this thread so apologies if I'm parroting what other people have already said.


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  #1674691 20-Nov-2016 21:18
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sxz:

 

If churches wanted to do good they would pay tax.

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure the government is always the most effective spender of other people's earnings to be honest.








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  #1674693 20-Nov-2016 21:25
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Dratsab:

MikeB4:
sxz:


If churches wanted to do good they would pay tax. 



How would Salvation Army do good if a chunk of the donations they receive goes to taxes?


A question which encompasses so much.


At the end of the day you can't selectively strip one religious organisation of it's tax exemption and leave the others. It's an all or nothing situation. The only alternative would be to have Destiny stripped of it's religious organisation status - attempting that would tie the Government up for years in the Courts so it ain't gonna happen. Same with stripping all religious organisations of tax free status - years of litigation along with an iron clad guarantee for whomever is in power that they'll lose the next election.


Disclaimer: I haven't bothered reading through this thread so apologies if I'm parroting what other people have already said.



While I believe that Bishop Tamaki is an abomination there are few things to consider.

1. Freedom of speech
2. Freedom of religion

Why put the good works done by a lot of church groups at risk because of the stupidity of one person. Why put at risk freedom of speech and freedom of religion because of the stupidity of one person. There may well be laws he has broken such as hate speech or exciting discrimination. In the end he has done more damage to his organisation than any punitive action could do..

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  #1674696 20-Nov-2016 21:39
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While I believe that Bishop Tamaki is an abomination there are few things to consider.

1. Freedom of speech
2. Freedom of religion

Why put the good works done by a lot of church groups at risk because of the stupidity of one person. Why put at risk freedom of speech and freedom of religion because of the stupidity of one person. There may well be laws he has broken such as hate speech or exciting discrimination. In the end he has done more damage to his organisation than any punitive action could do..

 

 

 

Sadly whilst it SHOULD be true he has done untold damage, like Trump his followers are unlikely to find this puts them off. He has been saying dumb things for years, and behaving in ways it's hard to believe God would find acceptable, people keep throwing their money at him and would probably follow him to the end of the earth (or at least to a complex in South Auckland for a mass suicide). 

 

 


sxz

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  #1674701 20-Nov-2016 22:14
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Geektastic:

sxz:


If churches wanted to do good they would pay tax.



 


I'm not sure the government is always the most effective spender of other people's earnings to be honest.



A country can't run without income. I pay my tax, I'm sure you do too. So do businesses. Why shouldn't a church? I'd love to be able to choose where and how my tax money is spent, but I can't. What makes a church so special?

Anyway, they would only be paying a portion of their income on tax, they would still get to send the best majority wherever they want.

It's an outdated law for outdated ideals

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  #1674702 20-Nov-2016 22:17
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sxz:
Geektastic:

sxz:


If churches wanted to do good they would pay tax.



 


I'm not sure the government is always the most effective spender of other people's earnings to be honest.



A country can't run without income. I pay my tax, I'm sure you do too. So do businesses. Why shouldn't a church? I'd love to be able to choose where and how my tax money is spent, but I can't. What makes a church so special?

Anyway, they would only be paying a portion of their income on tax, they would still get to send the best majority wherever they want.

It's an outdated law for outdated ideals


You response does not address the extensive charity work they do.

sxz

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  #1674703 20-Nov-2016 22:17
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MikeB4:
sxz:

If churches wanted to do good they would pay tax.



How would Salvation Army do good if a chunk of the donations they receive goes to taxes?


Those taxes would mean everyone has more money to support sick people, single parents, education, etc. what do you think taxes are for?

They would still have a majority of their money left over for their own purposes

sxz

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  #1674704 20-Nov-2016 22:19
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MikeB4:
sxz:
Geektastic:

sxz:


If churches wanted to do good they would pay tax.



 


I'm not sure the government is always the most effective spender of other people's earnings to be honest.



A country can't run without income. I pay my tax, I'm sure you do too. So do businesses. Why shouldn't a church? I'd love to be able to choose where and how my tax money is spent, but I can't. What makes a church so special?

Anyway, they would only be paying a portion of their income on tax, they would still get to send the best majority wherever they want.

It's an outdated law for outdated ideals


You response does not address the extensive charity work they do.


Your response assumes church profits are always spent on charity.

Look at my first comment. Taxes are good. They make country's work. They help sick people. They help people who need help. If churches wanted to help they would pay taxes. Period.

Technofreak
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  #1674707 20-Nov-2016 22:27
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sxz: Your response assumes church profits are always spent on charity.


Your response assumes churches make a profit.

Remember taxes are paid on profits not income.




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tdgeek
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  #1674710 20-Nov-2016 22:34
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sxz:
MikeB4:
sxz:
Geektastic:

 

sxz:

 

 

 

If churches wanted to do good they would pay tax.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure the government is always the most effective spender of other people's earnings to be honest.

 



A country can't run without income. I pay my tax, I'm sure you do too. So do businesses. Why shouldn't a church? I'd love to be able to choose where and how my tax money is spent, but I can't. What makes a church so special?

Anyway, they would only be paying a portion of their income on tax, they would still get to send the best majority wherever they want.

It's an outdated law for outdated ideals


You response does not address the extensive charity work they do.


Your response assumes church profits are always spent on charity.

Look at my first comment. Taxes are good. They make country's work. They help sick people. They help people who need help. If churches wanted to help they would pay taxes. Period.

 

That argument is flawed. You pay taxes on your income. If you donate to charity, that portion of income is tax free, as its a deductible. 

 

Therefore, any operation that runs not for profit, and ploughs back its earnings to charity should also be tax free.

 

However, when a not for profit operation allows its leader to take a $60,000 holiday on its followers, as he needs a rest, and he swans around in a new up market big car, that is not a not for profit organisation.


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