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michaelmurfy
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  #1786715 23-May-2017 13:33
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BlueShift:

 

eracode:

 

michaelmurfy:

 

Note: I work for a bank.

 

Hang on... I thought you told us you worked for the US Navy?

 

 

The HSBC Michael Murphy?

 

 

I was tempted to give you the banhammer for saying that :)





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frankv
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  #1786739 23-May-2017 13:53
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Geektastic:

 

IcI:

 

mdf: ... I think it's going to get to the point where you basically are going to have to carry proof of identity and address wherever you go. There are technology solutions afoot that sound interesting, though (a) there are still going to be painful first-time set up steps; and (b) I'm not aware of them being offered in NZ ...

 

     

  1. Secure Quick Reliable Login (SQRL) wants to do the same authentication as your link to ShoCard.
  2. What about RealMe? Already government approved. With link to NZ Post, you can also be address verified. BNZ already uses RealMe, why not ANZ?

 

 

 

 

I love option one. You can call it 'Squirrel'!

 

 

Uh-oh... Trademark violation? Squirrels and banking hark back to the good old POSB school bankbooks.

 

 


mdf

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  #1786801 23-May-2017 14:58
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SQRL looks to be doing something slightly different to me (an alternative to log ons and passwords), but I could be wrong there.

 

RealMe is apparently very expensive for providers to use. And until/unless its ubiquitous, it's not really any less frustrating - e.g. if I haven't already taken my documents into a Post Shop to get the ID verified version of RealMe, it's probably just as bad being told "take XYZ documents to the PostShop" as it is "take XYZ documents to your local branch".




Earbanean
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  #1786906 23-May-2017 16:49
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Geektastic:

 

You are not a name. You are a number.

 

 

Actually, quite the opposite.  The whole thrust of the AML laws is that you need to be a valid name and D.O.B. and address.  Being just a number is laundering heaven.


eracode
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  #1786963 23-May-2017 17:33
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BlueShift:

 

eracode:

 

michaelmurfy:

 

Note: I work for a bank.

 

 

 

Hang on... I thought you told us you worked for the US Navy?

 

 

 

 

The HSBC Michael Murphy?

 

 

 

 

High-Society Bacchanalian Cruiser Michael Murphy. Party boat.





Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.


Geektastic
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  #1787110 23-May-2017 21:58
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Earbanean:

 

Geektastic:

 

You are not a name. You are a number.

 

 

Actually, quite the opposite.  The whole thrust of the AML laws is that you need to be a valid name and D.O.B. and address.  Being just a number is laundering heaven.

 

 

 

 

To be honest, I am prepared to accept the relatively small percentage of laundering if it removes the monumental PITA regulations that have multiplied in a vain attempt to prevent it. Why should the rest of us have to put up with it just to assist the authorities in doing their jobs? If they applied that much vim and vigour to burglary, we could all sleep with our doors and windows open, which just goes to show what is more important to them....






Aredwood
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  #1787133 23-May-2017 22:32

Im more surprised that they let you email the forms in. What percentage of the population have Public key based digital signatures in their emails? Not many would. And as for proof of address, Unless you actually own your own home there isn't much that is definitive to prove your address. As I have never been asked to provide proof of ID just to open a power account or sign up to an ISP. So providing a copy of a bill doesn't prove much.

 

This reminds me of when I had to renew my driver's licence. They also wanted proof of address. But they wouldn't accept the letter they had sent me which said that my licence was due for renewal as proof of my address. The fact that it had my address on it and that I had successfully received it was not enough.

 

Ultimately I think we will all have to eventually have national ID cards that are linked back to your DNA. As currently your identity is chained back to your birth certificate. Which is them assumed that the doctor that handled your birth filled it out correctly. And that there was only ever 1 birth registered for you. Supposedly there is no authentication around this. So if you had dodgy parents they could have registered 2 separate identities for you.

 

And what about people who don't have a passport or a drivers licence?








mattwnz
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  #1787138 23-May-2017 23:03
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Aredwood:

 

Im more surprised that they let you email the forms in. What percentage of the population have Public key based digital signatures in their emails? Not many would. And as for proof of address, Unless you actually own your own home there isn't much that is definitive to prove your address. As I have never been asked to provide proof of ID just to open a power account or sign up to an ISP. So providing a copy of a bill doesn't prove much.

 

This reminds me of when I had to renew my driver's licence. They also wanted proof of address. But they wouldn't accept the letter they had sent me which said that my licence was due for renewal as proof of my address. The fact that it had my address on it and that I had successfully received it was not enough.

 

Ultimately I think we will all have to eventually have national ID cards that are linked back to your DNA. As currently your identity is chained back to your birth certificate. Which is them assumed that the doctor that handled your birth filled it out correctly. And that there was only ever 1 birth registered for you. Supposedly there is no authentication around this. So if you had dodgy parents they could have registered 2 separate identities for you.

 

And what about people who don't have a passport or a drivers licence?

 

 

 

 

I have just applied for a new credit card with my bank, and they wanted me to email them all sorts of private info. So it seems to be fairly common practice for these organisations to not have some form of secure communications.

 

 

 

These days I have got no real proof of address, as everything goes to a PO box, and all addressed mail has a PO box on it. So that causes a huge amount of problems for me when my bank wanted me to provide this to them. It is made worse by organisations no longer sending out mailed letters, and wanting to send all letters by email.


RUKI
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  #1787147 23-May-2017 23:33
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Some problems come from the modern "online banking" habit. When you do not have "online" and visit bank regularly (e.g. to reconcile) they would never ask you for an ID unless there is a new employee being checked by the branch manager who of course would know you.


ANglEAUT
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  #1787168 23-May-2017 23:45
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mdf:

 

SQRL looks to be doing something slightly different to me (an alternative to log ons and passwords), but I could be wrong there.

 

RealMe is apparently very expensive for providers to use. And until/unless its ubiquitous, it's not really any less frustrating - e.g. if I haven't already taken my documents into a Post Shop to get the ID verified version of RealMe, it's probably just as bad being told "take XYZ documents to the PostShop" as it is "take XYZ documents to your local branch".

 

 

     

  1. SQRL does the authentication part that ShoCard also does. SQRL does not do the ID part of ShoCard.
  2. RealMe can become more ubiquitos and then you only have to take your papers to the Post Office once. You won't have to take it to every shop/bank/provider individually.




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frankv
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  #1787220 24-May-2017 08:18
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Geektastic:

 

To be honest, I am prepared to accept the relatively small percentage of laundering if it removes the monumental PITA regulations that have multiplied in a vain attempt to prevent it. Why should the rest of us have to put up with it just to assist the authorities in doing their jobs? If they applied that much vim and vigour to burglary, we could all sleep with our doors and windows open, which just goes to show what is more important to them....

 

 

I think that the amount stolen via money laundering and tax evasion is an order of magnitude greater than what is stolen via burglaries.

 

 


vyfster
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  #1787252 24-May-2017 08:54
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IcI:

 

     

  1. Secure Quick Reliable Login (SQRL) wants to do the same authentication as your link to ShoCard.

 

 

/tongue placed firmly in cheek - if SQRL is a mobile app that scans QR codes for authentication, how would it be used to login to a mobile app?  Have a second phone for scanning QR codes?


Earbanean
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  #1787274 24-May-2017 09:29
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Geektastic:

 

 

 

To be honest, I am prepared to accept the relatively small percentage of laundering if it removes the monumental PITA regulations that have multiplied in a vain attempt to prevent it. Why should the rest of us have to put up with it just to assist the authorities in doing their jobs? If they applied that much vim and vigour to burglary, we could all sleep with our doors and windows open, which just goes to show what is more important to them....

 

 

The laws are for anti money laundering and financing of terrorism.  So a significant part of what they are there for is trying to prevent money being diverted to fund atrocities like Manchester.  So, sorry if these handful of forms are a "PITA" for you, but I personally think that's worth it.

 

Obviously these measures can't possibly stop all the funding getting through - but if we can contribute to even stopping one atrocity - then fill the bloody forms out.


Geektastic
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  #1787290 24-May-2017 09:56
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Earbanean:

 

Geektastic:

 

 

 

To be honest, I am prepared to accept the relatively small percentage of laundering if it removes the monumental PITA regulations that have multiplied in a vain attempt to prevent it. Why should the rest of us have to put up with it just to assist the authorities in doing their jobs? If they applied that much vim and vigour to burglary, we could all sleep with our doors and windows open, which just goes to show what is more important to them....

 

 

The laws are for anti money laundering and financing of terrorism.  So a significant part of what they are there for is trying to prevent money being diverted to fund atrocities like Manchester.  So, sorry if these handful of forms are a "PITA" for you, but I personally think that's worth it.

 

Obviously these measures can't possibly stop all the funding getting through - but if we can contribute to even stopping one atrocity - then fill the bloody forms out.

 

 

 

 

Believe that if you like. I bet the majority of the driver (admitted or not) is to stop people evading tax...! Nothing motivates governments more than getting more of our money.






Aredwood
3885 posts

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  #1788385 25-May-2017 21:05

Actually getting votes motivates them far more than tax. If they were really that tax hungry, they would have passed laws forcing the Auckland council to allow far more houses to be built. If we assume that each brand new house sold by a developer sells for $1 Million, that is $150K in GST alone to the government. Then add in the tax on the PAYE wages of all the workers who built it, and company tax paid on the profit of the building company and all of the sub contractors. Now multiply that out to the 20,000 extra houses that Auckland alone needs each year. That is a heck of alot of tax that the government has missed out on.

 

But the government didn't want to loose the votes from baby boomers and retirees who were making too much money from watching their house values increase. And who would get annoyed if the house next door to them got knocked down to allow terraced housing or apartments to be built. Despite living in an inner city area. And only recently the government finally decided to introduce some reporting requirements to see if any of the money flowing into property was laundered money.

 

Has the government done any investigation into historical house sales and purchases to see if any were funded with laundered money? Surely it won't be too hard for them to go through the public sale database and check that each sale was fully funded via bank transfers from NZ bank accounts. And red flag those that were not funded via NZ bank transfers.






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