UK to ban credit card charges next year

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Forums › Finance and wealth management › UK to ban credit card charges next year

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Master Geek

#1826522 21-Jul-2017 14:15

I must be one of the few people who pay with a plain swipe EFTPOS card - part of my protest against the interchange fee... only use debit/credit VISA online really.

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richms

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#1826531 21-Jul-2017 14:29

I try not to use swipe cards as there has been a history of machines being modified to skim the card on a swipe, whereas on chip from what I have been told they cant easily intercept the data with a simple audio recorder or transmitter. That is why whenever I insert a card in the machine and it demands a swipe I switch to using my crappy old ATM card instead of the debit one, since the numbers off that are useless to burn onto another card or use online. If they have modded it to get the pin as well then that is a bit more of a worry since they could burn the stripe data to a new card and use an ATM, but its an account I dont really care too much about vs my one with money in it.

Thats also one reason I really hate how ASB let you use any of your cards in their ATMs and access all of your accounts by suffix, If my card with check set up as the burner account and savings set up as nothing gets duped, stolen whatever then people can use it on an ASB atm and get to the savings and other accounts.

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Rikkitic

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#1826606 21-Jul-2017 14:47

I tend to use my debit card for fraud minimisation by limiting the balance on it to my anticipated needs. This way I can never lose more than a few hundred.

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#1826618 21-Jul-2017 14:57

Rikkitic:

I tend to use my debit card for fraud minimisation by limiting the balance on it to my anticipated needs. This way I can never lose more than a few hundred.

This is the reason I'd never, ever, ever want a debit card. (Not to mention it'd never work for me with all my hotels and rental cars).

ajobbins

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#1826628 21-Jul-2017 15:10

sbiddle:

I recall in the late 90's that you could use your Switch card just by swiping it - the concept of a PIN (like we had here with EFTPOS) was still a pipe dream.

I could do that with my AU bank issued Amex card until October 2014 (when they phased out signatures) for values under $100. mag stripe swipe............approved. Above $100 is asked for a signature. The card had an EMV chip, and if inserted would ask for a PIN but not for mag stripe.

Just like PayWave/Pass just a *little* less security.

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Geektastic

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#1826701 21-Jul-2017 17:34

KiwiSurfer:

Geektastic:

Pretty much all mainstream UK cards were chip and pin by the time I moved here in 2004 or so. We were astonished that at the time Visa Debit was not universally available in NZ - and even now I get people who don't believe it counts as Cheque rather than Credit at the terminal.

My understanding is that when the Cheque option is selected the transaction will be processed via the domestic EFTPOS network whereas when the Credit option is selected it'll be processed via the Visa/MasterCard/etc network. It's not technially equivalent even though from the consumer's perspective both options will eventually debit the same account. This is why some retailers have POS machines that prevent the Credit option from being used for Visa Debit cards as it costs them more to process these transactions. And this is also I believe why Paywave is not accepted as Paywave only processes transactions via Visa/MC/etc and is not avaiable to be used for EFTPOS transactions.

I suspect Visa/MasterCard's end game is the abolishment of domestic EFTPOS networks like we have here in NZ so that all card transactions go via their network so they get a % of all card transactions. Not sure if that is a great idea.

IME, a Visa Debit card simply fails to work if you press Credit. It usually is only an EFTPOS card by another name and so pressing credit just gets it rejected. At least that has been what happened when I have pressed credit once or twice by mistake.

Technofreak

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#1828013 23-Jul-2017 22:25

MikeAqua:

I try and avoid paying cash at small businesses. Too easy for cash revenue to be hidden and tax obligations to be dodged.

I don't see it's my job to be the "policeman". I treat everyone as being lawful until I have concrete evidence other wise.

I guess when you're driving you also stop other divers who may break the speed limit from overtaking you.

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Geektastic

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#1828062 24-Jul-2017 00:34

sbiddle:
Rikkitic: I tend to use my debit card for fraud minimisation by limiting the balance on it to my anticipated needs. This way I can never lose more than a few hundred.
This is the reason I'd never, ever, ever want a debit card. (Not to mention it'd never work for me with all my hotels and rental cars).

Why? We certainly have far higher limits on our credit cards than anyone would ever get out of our current account. I doubt there's often more than $500 in there.

richms

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#1828063 24-Jul-2017 00:51

Because the credit card money isnt yours. Unless you are counting on being able to spend it, then you have no downside to it going missing for a week while the banks mess about investigating how on earth the absurdly insecure system let someone else charge it to your card. Debit card is your money, you have to fight to get it back, unlike just saying you are not paying for things on a bill that arrives at the end of the month.

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#1828095 24-Jul-2017 08:29

Geektastic:
sbiddle:
Rikkitic: I tend to use my debit card for fraud minimisation by limiting the balance on it to my anticipated needs. This way I can never lose more than a few hundred.
This is the reason I'd never, ever, ever want a debit card. (Not to mention it'd never work for me with all my hotels and rental cars).
Why? We certainly have far higher limits on our credit cards than anyone would ever get out of our current account. I doubt there's often more than $500 in there.

You can't do holds on debit cards so they're useless for hotels or rental cars.

Likewise if my card is compromised (I've had my credit card replaced 6-7 times over the past 10 years, the last only last week) I'd far prefer it to be the banks credit that they use. On a debit card any fraud involves my money which I then have to get back from the bank.

tardtasticx

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#1828148 24-Jul-2017 09:36

sbiddle:
Geektastic:
sbiddle:
Rikkitic: I tend to use my debit card for fraud minimisation by limiting the balance on it to my anticipated needs. This way I can never lose more than a few hundred.
This is the reason I'd never, ever, ever want a debit card. (Not to mention it'd never work for me with all my hotels and rental cars).
Why? We certainly have far higher limits on our credit cards than anyone would ever get out of our current account. I doubt there's often more than $500 in there.

You can't do holds on debit cards so they're useless for hotels or rental cars.
Likewise if my card is compromised (I've had my credit card replaced 6-7 times over the past 10 years, the last only last week) I'd far prefer it to be the banks credit that they use. On a debit card any fraud involves my money which I then have to get back from the bank.

I don’t think that’s 100% correct. I’ve had plenty of holds put against a debit visa at hotels, worked exactly the same as Visa credit card.

With regards to fraud, I’ve always found it to be the same whether fraud was on debit or credit.
If your fraud claim was declined you either lose your own money or have to pay the bank for the credit they loaned. And while the money is in dispute it’s another issue of course if you can’t access actual money vs a credit balance.

Geektastic

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#1828231 24-Jul-2017 10:33

tardtasticx:
sbiddle:
Geektastic:
sbiddle:
Rikkitic: I tend to use my debit card for fraud minimisation by limiting the balance on it to my anticipated needs. This way I can never lose more than a few hundred.
This is the reason I'd never, ever, ever want a debit card. (Not to mention it'd never work for me with all my hotels and rental cars).
Why? We certainly have far higher limits on our credit cards than anyone would ever get out of our current account. I doubt there's often more than $500 in there.

You can't do holds on debit cards so they're useless for hotels or rental cars.
Likewise if my card is compromised (I've had my credit card replaced 6-7 times over the past 10 years, the last only last week) I'd far prefer it to be the banks credit that they use. On a debit card any fraud involves my money which I then have to get back from the bank.

I don’t think that’s 100% correct. I’ve had plenty of holds put against a debit visa at hotels, worked exactly the same as Visa credit card.

With regards to fraud, I’ve always found it to be the same whether fraud was on debit or credit.
If your fraud claim was declined you either lose your own money or have to pay the bank for the credit they loaned. And while the money is in dispute it’s another issue of course if you can’t access actual money vs a credit balance.

Agreed. I've done holds on Visa Debit too.

Although it is swings and roundabouts. If your credit card has a limit of say $15,000 and a fraudster runs that right to the stop before you notice, then even if the bank replaces your card instantly, you still can't access any credit to use the card because that would effectively mean the bank has to double your limit whilst they investigate, which places them at risk of you owing them $30,000 if they decide it was not fraud.

At least with a Debit card, if your account balance is only $500 then you can only lose that much.

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#1828298 24-Jul-2017 12:08

Geektastic:

tardtasticx:
sbiddle:
Geektastic:
sbiddle:
Rikkitic: I tend to use my debit card for fraud minimisation by limiting the balance on it to my anticipated needs. This way I can never lose more than a few hundred.
This is the reason I'd never, ever, ever want a debit card. (Not to mention it'd never work for me with all my hotels and rental cars).
Why? We certainly have far higher limits on our credit cards than anyone would ever get out of our current account. I doubt there's often more than $500 in there.

You can't do holds on debit cards so they're useless for hotels or rental cars.
Likewise if my card is compromised (I've had my credit card replaced 6-7 times over the past 10 years, the last only last week) I'd far prefer it to be the banks credit that they use. On a debit card any fraud involves my money which I then have to get back from the bank.

I don’t think that’s 100% correct. I’ve had plenty of holds put against a debit visa at hotels, worked exactly the same as Visa credit card.

With regards to fraud, I’ve always found it to be the same whether fraud was on debit or credit.
If your fraud claim was declined you either lose your own money or have to pay the bank for the credit they loaned. And while the money is in dispute it’s another issue of course if you can’t access actual money vs a credit balance.

Agreed. I've done holds on Visa Debit too.

Even if you can use a debit card it's your money that's then tied up - much like the woman last week complaining of the holds on the Spark payphones.

ajobbins

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#1828557 24-Jul-2017 17:00

While some places will allow a hold on a debit card, many places will not. Don't travel overseas and assume you can use a debit card only for holds as you may find yourself in trouble when a particular place blocks it (There are several ways to identify the card as a debit card vs. credit.

My other advice is always have two credit cards, each with a difference bank. That way, if you end up in a situation where one is stolen or incorrectly charged, you have another card you can use instead.

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sbiddle

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#1828642 24-Jul-2017 19:17

Geektastic:

KiwiSurfer:

Geektastic:

Pretty much all mainstream UK cards were chip and pin by the time I moved here in 2004 or so. We were astonished that at the time Visa Debit was not universally available in NZ - and even now I get people who don't believe it counts as Cheque rather than Credit at the terminal.

My understanding is that when the Cheque option is selected the transaction will be processed via the domestic EFTPOS network whereas when the Credit option is selected it'll be processed via the Visa/MasterCard/etc network. It's not technially equivalent even though from the consumer's perspective both options will eventually debit the same account. This is why some retailers have POS machines that prevent the Credit option from being used for Visa Debit cards as it costs them more to process these transactions. And this is also I believe why Paywave is not accepted as Paywave only processes transactions via Visa/MC/etc and is not avaiable to be used for EFTPOS transactions.

I suspect Visa/MasterCard's end game is the abolishment of domestic EFTPOS networks like we have here in NZ so that all card transactions go via their network so they get a % of all card transactions. Not sure if that is a great idea.

IME, a Visa Debit card simply fails to work if you press Credit. It usually is only an EFTPOS card by another name and so pressing credit just gets it rejected. At least that has been what happened when I have pressed credit once or twice by mistake.

It seems to depend on the card. Our office debit card (Westpac) needs the credit button.

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