Quic Broadband - Anyone Heard of Them?

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#3080606 29-May-2023 10:36

aj6828: You need a beefy router to work well with pppoe and also turn on hardware offloading to get the speeds .. get a mikrotick wired router with 2.5g wan

You're correct here but IMHO I actually don't recommend Mikrotik to everyone for the reason they're reasonably hard to configure and one slip up could lead you in a world of trouble security wise (and this is easy to do). If the end user is technical then go for it.

studdart: It's a RT-AC86U.

There's your problem. Those routers have terrible PPPoE performance as it is done in software + their CPU isn't all that great. You came from an ISP who use IPoE (DHCP) which does have lower overheads on the consumer's routers side.

Out of interest what router are you replacing it with? The thing to note with Hyperfibre is many consumer grade routers have 2.5Gbit ports to look pretty but don't necessary have the grunt to route 2Gbit over PPPoE.

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aj6828

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#3080607 29-May-2023 10:40

studdart:
It's a RT-AC86U. I don't expect hyperfibre speeds out of it! I did expect to get better, and more consistent, speeds than my old provider, especially for upload (which was limited before but shouldn't now).

Try changing the mtu to 1500

studdart

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#3080654 29-May-2023 10:49

aj6828: Try changing the mtu to 1500

I tried, it won't let me. I think I'll have to change to the Merlin firmware for that, not a big deal, but I'll have to try it one evening (I WFH 100% and can't break the internet, even if it's slow, during normal hours).

I did turn off QoS which as removed almost all load from the CPU, it's less than 5% when running a speed test. I actually tried it a few times to be sure as I was quite surprised how much of a difference that made to CPU usage.

studdart

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#3080701 29-May-2023 10:57

michaelmurfy:There's your problem. Those routers have terrible PPPoE performance as it is done in software + their CPU isn't all that great. You came from an ISP who use IPoE (DHCP) which does have lower overheads on the consumer's routers side.

Now I've turned of QoS (which I didn't need anyway), the cpu usage is very low. Also I would expect the upload and download to be about the same if it was the CPU, that might be a bad assumption though. My upload speed is a third to a half of download speed.

michaelmurfy: Out of interest what router are you replacing it with? The thing to note with Hyperfibre is many consumer grade routers have 2.5Gbit ports to look pretty but don't necessary have the grunt to route 2Gbit over PPPoE.

I'm getting a Archer-BE800. /fingers crossed/.

michaelmurfy

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#3080703 29-May-2023 11:07

studdart:

I'm getting a Archer-BE800. /fingers crossed/.

Be very careful here. That router is not available in NZ and thus has not had certification. I would err on the side of caution here and only buy local to prevent you from getting in trouble with RSM.

studdart

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#3080722 29-May-2023 11:22

michaelmurfy:I would err on the side of caution here and only buy local to prevent you from getting in trouble with RSM.

That is an excelent point I hadn't considered, thank you. I'll reconsider that option. I was told it should be availible locally in a couple of months, so I will likely pursue that plan. That does mean, that in the mean time, I'd really like to get this Asus performing a little better... and at this point, I'm not convinced it's the Asus that's the problem. I should be able to get more than 300Mbps upload on a wired connection even with PPOE.

michaelmurfy

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#3080725 29-May-2023 11:31

The Asus you're using has had known problems with PPPoE performance in the past. This is highly off-topic but if you wanted to discuss this further then you need to start a new thread. Basically installing Merlin and enabling CTF (cut through forwarding) resolved it for some but I have not touched an Asus router for quite some time. This almost sounds like you may have another limiter present on your router that is limiting your upload.

Try and get hold of a router that is known to do Gigabit offloading on PPPoE (ideally provided by an ISP) or alternatively if you've got a PC with a 2.5Gbit port you could configure PPPoE on this and do some additional testing.

studdart

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#3080731 29-May-2023 11:41

michaelmurfy: The Asus you're using has had known problems with PPPoE performance in the past. This is highly off-topic but if you wanted to discuss this further then you need to start a new thread. Basically installing Merlin and enabling CTF (cut through forwarding) resolved it for some but I have not touched an Asus router for quite some time.

Interesting, I'll give Merlin a go and see if it helps. That will allow me to up the MTU size too. If not, I'll start a new topic. I think it is worth noting to other potential users of Quic that their setup may well not play nice until Quic offer an alternative to PPOE (which I think was on the cards of this year, but I may be misremembering). I can barely make the "Sprinter" plan speeds, let alone even aproach Hyperfibre.

michaelmurfy:This almost sounds like you may have another limiter present on your router that is limiting your upload.

Yes, it does, but I can't see anything and I didn't have this problem last week on Orcon. I might see if I can get the 10Gb port on my workstation to play nice with PPOE and see what happens there too.

(Edit to say: Thanks for your help and supprt folks! :))

gregb

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#3080733 29-May-2023 11:45

studdart:

I did turn off QoS which as removed almost all load from the CPU, it's less than 5% when running a speed test.

As others have pointed out this is expected. In general, to get PPPoE to run towards gigabit or faster speeds you need hardware offload. Most devices will have features that cause the hardware offload to be disabled (e.g. QOS as you saw, as well as some firewall rules). If the packets are not processed in hardware then the CPU(s) will need to handle them. If you can look at the CPU load it is a good indicator of whether the packets are being handled by a hardware offload or one or more CPUs. I run a pfSense router and it uses a single CPU core for inbound PPPoE traffic (this really sucks).

The same hardware which performs very poorly with PPPoE, idles with gigabit with IPoE traffic (less that 25%). Hopefully the cost of supporting customers on a PPoE network will encourage ISPs to move to IPoE.

Also (as pointed out by others), enable 1500byte frames on the PPPoE link (default is 1492). It is a small thing that will help a little.

My understanding is that Quic is looking to provide service via IPoE. There are no dates provided for forward looking commitments (as you would expect). In the mean time I downgraded to a 300/100 plan. I'd be very keen to try the IPoE plan when it is available.

toejam316

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#3080765 29-May-2023 12:14

Nope, Asus routers collapse under PPPoE loads.
You're almost certainly getting the best it can doz your previous ISP was IPoE. Huge difference.
What is this Multigig router you have coming? If it's another Asus box you might be in for an unpleasant surprise.

Anything I say is the ramblings of an ill informed, opinionated so-and-so, and not representative of any of my past, present or future employers, and is also probably best disregarded.

studdart

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#3080769 29-May-2023 12:28

gregb: The same hardware which performs very poorly with PPPoE, idles with gigabit with IPoE traffic (less that 25%). Hopefully the cost of supporting customers on a PPoE network will encourage ISPs to move to IPoE.

The router shows very very little CPU useage now, so I'm not even sure that is it any more. But yes, I fully agree and hope PPPoE is left behind soon. I gave Merlin a go over lunch and tried the 1500 MTU too. No measurable difference.

gregb: My understanding is that Quic is looking to provide service via IPoE. There are no dates provided for forward looking commitments (as you would expect). In the mean time I downgraded to a 300/100 plan. I'd be very keen to try the IPoE plan when it is available.

Yup, I heard/read the same somewhere. If I can not figure out what's wrong I'm going to have to switch provider again. I need decent internet for my work and this isn't it.

aj6828

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#3080774 29-May-2023 12:33

https://www.pbtech.co.nz/product/NETUBI1209/Ubiquiti-EdgeRouter-ER-X-Advanced-Gigabit-Router-5?qr=GShopping&gclid=Cj0KCQjw98ujBhCgARIsAD7QeAhjl3gHNyaoWLOi3yNmkwU2-GRAEEeSA4i_FQFtl4rCXF7NiK2jCQwaAkMAEALw_wcB

Is a good router but it's wired you can plug this and turn on hardware offloading and plug your asus for wifi but your limited to 950mbps

studdart

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#3080778 29-May-2023 12:38

aj6828: https://www.pbtech.co.nz/product/NETUBI1209/Ubiquiti-EdgeRouter-ER-X-Advanced-Gigabit-Router-5?qr=GShopping&gclid=Cj0KCQjw98ujBhCgARIsAD7QeAhjl3gHNyaoWLOi3yNmkwU2-GRAEEeSA4i_FQFtl4rCXF7NiK2jCQwaAkMAEALw_wcB

Is a good router but it's wired you can plug this and turn on hardware offloading and plug your asus for wifi but your limited to 950mbps

Thanks for the recomendation. To be honest, if I'm going to be limited to 950Mbps, I might as well switch back to Orcon (or another provider) and not even bother with the PPPoE issue entirely.

aj6828

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#3080783 29-May-2023 12:53

studdart:
aj6828: https://www.pbtech.co.nz/product/NETUBI1209/Ubiquiti-EdgeRouter-ER-X-Advanced-Gigabit-Router-5?qr=GShopping&gclid=Cj0KCQjw98ujBhCgARIsAD7QeAhjl3gHNyaoWLOi3yNmkwU2-GRAEEeSA4i_FQFtl4rCXF7NiK2jCQwaAkMAEALw_wcB

Is a good router but it's wired you can plug this and turn on hardware offloading and plug your asus for wifi but your limited to 950mbps

Thanks for the recomendation. To be honest, if I'm going to be limited to 950Mbps, I might as well switch back to Orcon (or another provider) and not even bother with the PPPoE issue entirely.

Dhcp provides from my knowledge are 2degrees myrepublic and orcon .. if you wana look around..

mikrotik rb5009 is a 2.5g wired router best one out there I can't find any nz stock sells like hot cake ..

toejam316

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#3080787 29-May-2023 12:58

The question is what are you trying to achieve with gigabit+ speeds?
You'll need a suitable router, gowifi is getting some rb5009s in next month.

Anything I say is the ramblings of an ill informed, opinionated so-and-so, and not representative of any of my past, present or future employers, and is also probably best disregarded.

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