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80 posts

Master Geek
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# 104145 15-Jun-2012 21:27
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Anyone help with this?

I built myself a new HTPC and put in a Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-4400 TV Tuner. I want to set up MediaPortal to use it with my satellite setup. I've worked out all the different tuners in the card are recognised as different tuners by Windows, so I have made a hybrid card out of the DVB-S2, DVB-T and Analog tuners. I can tune the DVB-T and Analog tuners with no problems, but a successful DVB-S setup is eluding me and I am getting frustrated.

I have a 9x4 multiswitch and it is setup like this:
DiSEqC PORT1:
13V/0Hz - Optus D1 V - Ku Band
18V/0Hz - Optus D1 H - Ku Band
13V/22KHz - Optus D2 V - Ku Band
18V/22KHz - Optus D2 H - Ku Band
DiSEqC PORT2:
13V/0Hz - Asiasat 3S V - C Band
18V/0Hz - Asiasat 3S H - C Band
13V/22KHz - Intelsat 8 V - Ku Band
18V/22KHz - Intelsat 5 H - C Band

My normal satellite set top boxes are setup like this:
Optus D1 10750, 13/18V, 22KHz Off, Port 1
Optus D2 10750, 13/18V, 22KHz On, Port 1
Asiasat 3S 5150, 13/18V, 22KHz Off, Port 2
Intelsat 8 10750, 13/18V, 22K On, Port 2 (and because of the 18V I can tune in the I5 channels as if they're on I8)
Intelsat 5 5150, 18V, 22K On, Port 2

I can tune in Optus D1 and Optus D2 with Mediaportal - TV Server Configuration, but MediaPortal will only play the D1 channels, and tell me there is no signal on D2. I have D1 and D2 saying DiSEqC Simple A.

Here is a snapshot:


So what DiSEC setting do I need? Where can I specify 22KHz tone on? And what about 13/18V?
Have other people got multiple satellite systems setup OK with MediaPortal?

If I get Intelsat 8 sussed then I can edit the transponder xml if I can find it and put in my dodgy C-band Intel5 settings as a Ku-Band transponder.

I've got to say the set top boxes are way, way easier to setup than MediaPortal. Why don't they make setting up the sats like they do in set top boxes? I mean there are 17x32 multiswitches out there.

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376 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  # 642185 17-Jun-2012 18:57
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Hi there

You seem to have quite a setup in terms of sats! I just have a 70cm dish with dual LNB's (10750) pointed at Optus D1 & D2 and another 90cm dish with a C-Band LNB (5050) pointed at Intelsat 5.

I had issues with MediaPortal due to this bug:

http://mantis.team-mediaportal.com/view.php?id=3379

It meant that if I tuned Optus D1 channels and checed the'd work fine. Then I'd tune the C-Band LNB. Id check and it would work, but then the others stopped and vica verca.

I see the issue is marked minor, but it seems like a major (being perfectly selfish!) to me!

Curious to hear your comments...




My HTPC - Case Antec Fusion Remote, MOBO Intel DH67BLB3, CPU Intel Core i5-2400S 2.5 GHz, RAM 8GB  DDR3 1333, HDD 120Gig Corsair Force Series 3 SSD system | WD Caviar Black 2TB data, Tuners Black Gold BGT3595 dual DVB-S/S2, dual DVB-T, Video nVIDIA GeForce GT 520, 1024MB, Sound Intel® High Definition Audio (onboard), OS Windows 7 x64



80 posts

Master Geek
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  # 642197 17-Jun-2012 19:39
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Thanks Blur. Indeed that minor bug is going to keep me from succeeding for now.

I did a bit better when I turned the Preferred network provider to Generic. I got the Asiasat 3S channels tuned. So I did get to see the DVB-S2 channels for the first time, plus my 2.3m dish for Asiasat 3S is a bit small, and I was impressed with the picture quality the Hauppauge receiver got compared to my set top boxes. It can deal with lower signal/noise ratios really well.

Still can't get Intelsat 8 or 5 at all. And changing channels between different sats is not that fantastic, and requires restarts, reboots, and a reinstall.

 
 
 
 


376 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 1


  # 642200 17-Jun-2012 19:52
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Yeah, I'd say your best bet is to consult mm3200 for an update to MediaPortal.

It says that this bug will be solved in version 1.3.0 which is due out in a week or so, but this would need to be confirmed.

Just as an aside, I'd be curious to know a little bit more about your setup. Can you elaborate?

B.




My HTPC - Case Antec Fusion Remote, MOBO Intel DH67BLB3, CPU Intel Core i5-2400S 2.5 GHz, RAM 8GB  DDR3 1333, HDD 120Gig Corsair Force Series 3 SSD system | WD Caviar Black 2TB data, Tuners Black Gold BGT3595 dual DVB-S/S2, dual DVB-T, Video nVIDIA GeForce GT 520, 1024MB, Sound Intel® High Definition Audio (onboard), OS Windows 7 x64



80 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 2


  # 642204 17-Jun-2012 20:03
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Here's more about my setup: http://extra-channels.com/2012/04/23/installing-a-2-3m-dish/

1134 posts

Uber Geek
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  # 643173 19-Jun-2012 13:47
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Hi mthredgo

mthredgo: Anyone help with this?

Yes. I've actually got a similar setup to you. 9x8 EMP Centauri multiswitch to receive D1, D2 and D3.

Port 1:
DiSEqC PORT1:
13V/0Hz - Optus D1 V - Ku Band
18V/0Hz - Optus D1 H - Ku Band
13V/22KHz - (not used)
18V/22KHz - (not used)
DiSEqC PORT2:
13V/0Hz - Optus D2 V - Ku Band
18V/0Hz - Optus D2 H - Ku Band
13V/22KHz - Optus D3 V - Ku Band
18V/22KHz - Optus D3 H - Ku Band

...so I have made a hybrid card out of the DVB-S2, DVB-T and Analog tuners.

This is not right. The DVB-T and analog should be hybrid, but the DVB-S/2 is independent on the 4400.

I can tune in Optus D1 and Optus D2 with Mediaportal - TV Server Configuration, but MediaPortal will only play the D1 channels, and tell me there is no signal on D2. I have D1 and D2 saying DiSEqC Simple A.

For my multiswitch I use AA and BB. Might be different for you though.

So what DiSEC setting do I need?

As above - I recommend AA and BB or simple A and simple B.

Where can I specify 22KHz tone on?

You can't do this directly - this will be the biggest problem.

And what about 13/18V?

It is not normal to specify this directly. The multiswitch will only take one polarity from each input because the input voltages (the voltages supplied to the LNBs) are fixed. I think you're aware of this.

If I get Intelsat 8 sussed then I can edit the transponder xml if I can find it and put in my dodgy C-band Intel5 settings as a Ku-Band transponder.

Editing the transponder XML will be required, yes - but not for the Intelsat 5 issue.

I've got to say the set top boxes are way, way easier to setup than MediaPortal. Why don't they make setting up the sats like they do in set top boxes? I mean there are 17x32 multiswitches out there.

I *really* hear you. <sigh>. This is something that I'm working on on-and-off (too many things to do!) as mentioned by Blur. Unfortunately it will not be ready for MP 1.3.

Okay so straight up, the two biggest issues you will face doing this with MP are:
- the fact that you can't directly specify 22k tone state
- the fact that the LNB override settings are global (the issue mentioned by Blur)

Usually the second point is not an issue *as long as your LNB has compatible settings in the "band type" field*. All of your LNBs do, which is good:
- use "NA Bandstacked Ku Lo" or "NA Bandstacked DP Ku Lo" for 10750 MHz LNBs (not very obvious, I know!)
- use "C band" for 5150 MHz LNBs
***@blur: you should not have any hassles with 10750 and 5150 MHz LNBs - no need to use those frustrating LNB overrides

The problem is that the lack of an independent 22k setting means that you would need to use custom LNB settings to trigger the 22k tone (the 22k tone is activated when the transponder frequency is higher than the switch frequency). Knowing what I do about MP and given what you've explained about your setup, this is what I would do:

1. Switch Asiasat 3S to inputs 1 and 2 (port A, 22k off).
2. Switch Intelsat 5 and 8 to inputs 5 and 6 (port B, 22k off).
3. Switch D1 and D2 to the other 4 ports - doesn't really matter which goes on which pair here.
4. Enable LNB override frequencies (meaning it doesn't matter what you set as "band type" up the top).
5. Set the override frequencies as follows: 5150, 10750, 10000 (or any number between the highest C-band transponder frequency and the lowest Ku-band transponder frequency).
6. Edit the IS 8 transponder XML and adjust all Ku band transponders to work with 5150 MHz.

Example of step 6 for 12491 V (Arirang):
12491 - 10750 + 5150 = 6891 MHz
<transponder frequency> - <actual LNB LOF> + <fake LNB LOF> = <fake transponder frequency>

My logic: we know that the only way to enable the 22k is when the transponder frequency is higher than the LNB switch frequency. It is easier to manipulate the LNB settings to achieve the desired outcome than it is to edit all the transponder files. C-band transponder frequencies are naturally significantly lower than Ku band, so we use that to our advantage. We set the switch frequency in between the C and Ku band ranges so that 22k is nominally off for C band and on for Ku band. Obviously, the rearranging of the inputs on the multiswitch is required for this to work. The only fly in the ointment so to speak is IS 8, which ends up on an input that requires 22k to be off... but MP would turn 22k on with the default transponder frequencies. We manipulate the transponder frequencies to avoid this problem (thankfully there are only a handful of frequencies that you would need to edit for this).

The end result should be a working setup. More painful than it should be, but not unbearable I hope.

I did a bit better when I turned the Preferred network provider to Generic.

Generic is the default.

...and I was impressed with the picture quality the Hauppauge receiver got compared to my set top boxes. It can deal with lower signal/noise ratios really well.

Since the signal is digital, the picture quality is determined by codecs and renderers rather than the tuner... unless the signal quality is borderline and you are getting dropouts on the STB because of this.

And changing channels between different sats is not that fantastic, and requires restarts, reboots, and a reinstall.

The 3 R's should not be required. Perhaps you have other issues going on there?

mm



80 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 2


  # 643189 19-Jun-2012 14:01
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mm, Thankyou for that great response. It may have to wait for the weekend to get the ladder out and go up into the roof, but I'll do everything you suggest.

Last night I had a play with DVB-Dream, PowerDVB, and another I can't remember the name of and have concluded that they are all pretty dreadful to use in terms of Sat setups. My cheap as Topfield set top box kicks all of their butts User Interface wise. Maybe I should volunteer some time myself for the MediaPortal project and keep my hand in as a developer.

1134 posts

Uber Geek
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  # 643205 19-Jun-2012 14:32
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mthredgo: mm, Thankyou for that great response. It may have to wait for the weekend to get the ladder out and go up into the roof, but I'll do everything you suggest.

No problem. I'll keep an eye on this thread in case you have any questions. For more urgent issues, you're welcome to PM me. I am usually fairly active here but I did only see this thread a couple of hours ago.

Last night I had a play with DVB-Dream, PowerDVB, and another I can't remember the name of and have concluded that they are all pretty dreadful to use in terms of Sat setups. My cheap as Topfield set top box kicks all of their butts User Interface wise. Maybe I should volunteer some time myself for the MediaPortal project and keep my hand in as a developer.

The problem that I have with most DVB software is that regardless of how good it is with sat setups, it is no substitute for full HTPC software. On the other hand, WMC TV channel configuration drives me nuts. I'd be the first to admit that MP is far from perfect, but it is open source and free - a good excuse for a hobby. Another developer from NZ would be welcome. Smile

 
 
 
 




80 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 2


  # 643495 19-Jun-2012 21:56
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OK, I have got up in the roof. And I ended up doing this (it's not quite the same as the suggested, but I think with the c-band stuff on the 22K Off inputs its okay):

Port A - 22K off - Intelsat 8 V
Port A - 22K off - Intelsat 5 H
Port A - 22K on - Optus D2 V H
Port B - 22K off - Asiasat 3S V H
Port B - 22K on - Optus D1 V H

It took about a minute each to change the settings in my set top boxes. They all worked after changing to the new settings.

In MediaPortal I split the DVB-S2 tuner from the hybrid and set these options:

#1 Level 1AA, C-band, Intelsat2,5
#2 Level 1AA, NA Bandstacked Ku-Lo (FSS), Optus D2
#3 Level 1BB, C-Band, AsiaSat 3S
#4 Level 1BB, NA Bandstacked Ku-Lo (FSS), Optus D1
ticked Enabled DVB-S2 channels tuning/scanning
ticked Use advanced tuning options
ticked Override default LNB frequencies
LOF1 5150 MHz
LOF2 10750 Mhz
Switch LNBSW 10000 MHz

I got the Intelsat 5 channels. I got the D2 channels. Asiasat 3S completely missing. D1 channels missing, but it tuned in some of the D2 channels and said they were on D1.

I can't find the satellite channels xml file to add Arirang's transponder to the Intelsat 5 list. Where does that hide?

I am now confused completely. It looks like it didn't send the DiSEqC commands. I also tried with Level1AA instead of Port A, and Level1BB instead of Port B.

Any more advice?

2623 posts

Uber Geek
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  # 643524 19-Jun-2012 22:54
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I can't offer any advice but, after reading your web page, I would like to say that I think your setup is darned impressive. Kudos!

5473 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1914


  # 643583 20-Jun-2012 08:48
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Some of those multiswitches will work with either Toneburst or DiSeqC.

Try Toneburst A / Toneburst B to switch between either side of the switch (that may be called DiSEqC simple in your setup???).

If that doesn't work, then AA / AB (not AA / BB) would be the next thing to try.

1134 posts

Uber Geek
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  # 643698 20-Jun-2012 11:32
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Hi again

mthredgo: OK, I have got up in the roof. And I ended up doing this (it's not quite the same as the suggested, but I think with the c-band stuff on the 22K Off inputs its okay):

Port A - 22K off - Intelsat 8 V
Port A - 22K off - Intelsat 5 H
Port A - 22K on - Optus D2 V H
Port B - 22K off - Asiasat 3S V H
Port B - 22K on - Optus D1 V H

Yep, that should be okay.

In MediaPortal I split the DVB-S2 tuner from the hybrid and set these options:

#1 Level 1AA, C-band, Intelsat2,5
#2 Level 1AA, NA Bandstacked Ku-Lo (FSS), Optus D2
#3 Level 1BB, C-Band, AsiaSat 3S
#4 Level 1BB, NA Bandstacked Ku-Lo (FSS), Optus D1
ticked Enabled DVB-S2 channels tuning/scanning
ticked Use advanced tuning options
ticked Override default LNB frequencies
LOF1 5150 MHz
LOF2 10750 Mhz
Switch LNBSW 10000 MHz

Looks okay.

I got the Intelsat 5 channels.

Okay.

I got the D2 channels.

Okay. This suggests the trick is working.

Asiasat 3S completely missing. D1 channels missing, but it tuned in some of the D2 channels and said they were on D1.

Right - so the tuner is not causing the switch to switch between port group A and B with those DiSEqC settings. As suggested by RunningMan: try Simple A and Simple B.

[@RunningMan: thanks for your help! :) My understanding is that it is a more sure bet to use AA + BB than AA + AB for a two port switch when you're not sure whether it works by option or position.]

I can't find the satellite channels xml file to add Arirang's transponder to the Intelsat 5 list. Where does that hide?

On Vista and W7: C:\ProgramData\Team MediaPortal\MediaPortal TV Server\TuningParameters\dvbs
On XP: C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\Team MediaPortal\MediaPortal TV Server\TuningParameters\dvbs
If you haven't enabled viewing of hidden and system files on your PC then I recommend you paste the path into the address bar in Windows Explorer, and it should take you there. The file to edit is "169.0°E Intelsat 2,5.xml", and it can be edited in any text editor.

I am now confused completely. It looks like it didn't send the DiSEqC commands. I also tried with Level1AA instead of Port A, and Level1BB instead of Port B.

Yes, it does seem that way. Are you able to upload your tv.log and error.log somewhere for me to take a look. To grab them, open TV Server configuration and click "open log directory" in the top left corner.

mm

5473 posts

Uber Geek
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  # 643702 20-Jun-2012 11:39
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mm1352000: [snip]

[@RunningMan: thanks for your help! :) My understanding is that it is a more sure bet to use AA + BB than AA + AB for a two port switch when you're not sure whether it works by option or position.]

mm


As I understand it, you would use AA / AB for a two port setup (i.e. 8 input switch), and AA / AB / BA / BB for a four port (16 input) switch.

This is based on guidance I had from a tech at EMP Centauri when having problems with a switch quite some time ago.

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Uber Geek
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  # 643705 20-Jun-2012 11:44
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You could also try DisEqC 1 / 2.



80 posts

Master Geek
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  # 643706 20-Jun-2012 11:48
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My STBs all use what they call Port 1 and Port 2. I was assuming Simple A meant Port 1, and Simple B meant Port 2.

If that assumption is wrong and if Mediaportal server setup has the options of SimpleA, SimpleB, AA, AB, BA, BB, then how do I specify Port 1 and Port 2?

New to Win7 but have just worked out how to turn on hidden files (in Control panel, Appearance and Personalisation, Folder Options)

Will try all the suggestions this evening, and upload logs if it doesn't all work.

thanks everyone.

5473 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1914


  # 643712 20-Jun-2012 11:59
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There's two issues in play here (other than MP being difficult to configure).

1) Different STBs / software etc. using different terminology to refer to the same thing - i.e. Toneburst / DisEqC commands.

2) Different switches respond to different commands, and often respond to multiple commands. For example I used a switch that would respond to Toneburst A / B or DisEqC AA / AB to switch between ports (like yours). You could also send DisEqC 1-8 to select any individual LNB input without using 14/18v or 22kHz (just to complicate matters!).

Just something to bear in mind - switches can get confused if they are sent invalid signals - sometimes resetting the switch by powering off for a minute can resolve issues...

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