4K and 8K Technology Discussion Thread

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Buzz Bumble

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#1002268 10-Mar-2014 18:54

myfullflavour: Unless you're a gamer - why would you buy 4k when there is still no content?

If I remember correctly, not even the new "next generation" consoles can do 4K, so even gamers are wasting their time with 4K TVs.

joker97: don't know how they are going to get 4K featured content to the public. it probably wón't fit in a bluray disc ... would it? either they compress it, or a new dvd spec needs to be invented?

The draft standard is currently intending to use four-layer Blu-ray discs for 4K content. Whatever standard they finally agree on will mean the consumer will, as usual, have to buy a new 4K Blu-ray player and a new 4K recorder to go with their new 4K TV ... and all the old favourites will get yet another re-re-re-release in the new format ... hope you've got a big bank balance and deep pockets, because you're gonna need it if you want to go with 4K. :-\

Of course, by the time they settle all that, the TV makers will have already moved on to 8K, 16K, etc. and the vicious money circle starts its next cycle.

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JimmyH

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#1002269 10-Mar-2014 18:54

Maybe initially. But I'm old enough to remember when DVD players cost significantly more than $1,000 ($2,500 for a Sony vaguely springs to mind) with very little content around, and 32" flat screens were north of $10,000.

If it takes off, and volume production gets under way, prices will fall dramatically after a few years. HD 40" screens are now sub $1,000 and DVD/BR players can be had for under $100.

Batman

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#1002277 10-Mar-2014 18:58

Buzz Bumble: ... and all the old favourites will get yet another re-re-re-release in the new format ...

I am so ready for return of the Jedi more-extended ultra-mastered 16K edition!

Hobchild

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#1002283 10-Mar-2014 19:08

JimmyH: Maybe initially. But I'm old enough to remember when DVD players cost significantly more than $1,000 ($2,500 for a Sony vaguely springs to mind) with very little content around, and 32" flat screens were north of $10,000.

If it takes off, and volume production gets under way, prices will fall dramatically after a few years. HD 40" screens are now sub $1,000 and DVD/BR players can be had for under $100.

The big question being "if it takes off?" The TV buying craze seems to have died off as everybody would rather spend their money on the small screen these days. Something that might actually entice me into upgrading one of my TV's would be a real smart TV, i.e. a TV that could browse the internet as easily as a tablet and that contains a fair amount of flash storage for you to customise so your TV really does become your own TV.

Buzz Bumble

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#1002289 10-Mar-2014 19:17

Broadcast TV is reaching the end of it's lifespan for various reasons (for quite a few people it's already dead). The real "next generation" of TVs will be where the user can access the content they want to watch, when they want to watch it, via a fast, non-capped Internet connection. This has already started to some degree.

joker97: I am so ready for return of the Jedi more-extended ultra-mastered 16K edition!

With Smell-o-vision and SuperSense technology ... smell and feel the sweat in the climactic battle. ;-)

JimmyH

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#1002455 10-Mar-2014 22:27

Hobchild: The big question being "if it takes off?" The TV buying craze seems to have died off as everybody would rather spend their money on the small screen these days.

That's the $64,000 question. And, just like 3D TVs, if it doesn't you will be left with a fairly expensive bit of kit that doesn't do very much that a normal (cheaper) telly won't.

However, I'm puzzled why you say that people would rather spend their money on small screens now. Most people I know buying a TV for the main room still want decent sized screens. I certainly wouldn't consider buying a small (sub 40") screen for my living room. What is dying off is TV buying overall - purely because with digital switch-over having occurred, most people have finished upgrading their old kit.

Something that might actually entice me into upgrading one of my TV's would be a real smart TV, i.e. a TV that could browse the internet as easily as a tablet and that contains a fair amount of flash storage for you to customise so your TV really does become your own TV.

Personally, I just want my TV to be a good screen. I can then add smarts by connecting a media player or computer etc to get what I want, at a price point I want, and do modular upgrades rather than junking everything as technology/pricing evolves. You could get what you state you want now with (for instance) an iPad and an Apple TV to mirror it to the screen, or an Android equivalent, or a Home Theatre PC, or connecting your laptop to the telly and plugging in a wireless keyboard. No need to wait if that's what you want to do.

Batman

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#1002459 10-Mar-2014 22:39

Buzz Bumble: Broadcast TV is reaching the end of it's lifespan for various reasons (for quite a few people it's already dead). The real "next generation" of TVs will be where the user can access the content they want to watch, when they want to watch it, via a fast, non-capped Internet connection. This has already started to some degree.

for gen Y and gen Z yeah probably. but over gen X's dead bodies you're not!

joker97: I am so ready for return of the Jedi more-extended ultra-mastered 16K edition!

With Smell-o-vision and SuperSense technology ... smell and feel the sweat in the climactic battle. ;-)

hmm never thought of that ... maybe in 3D + sense = 4D!

ilovemusic

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#1002503 10-Mar-2014 23:41

tdgeek:

Yep. SD to HD is a great upgrade, is 4k ready for prime time, given that HD and BR is rubbish? I don't think so

hd and br rubbish ???

Hobchild

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#1002508 10-Mar-2014 23:52

JimmyH:
Hobchild: The big question being "if it takes off?" The TV buying craze seems to have died off as everybody would rather spend their money on the small screen these days.

That's the $64,000 question. And, just like 3D TVs, if it doesn't you will be left with a fairly expensive bit of kit that doesn't do very much that a normal (cheaper) telly won't.

However, I'm puzzled why you say that people would rather spend their money on small screens now. Most people I know buying a TV for the main room still want decent sized screens. I certainly wouldn't consider buying a small (sub 40") screen for my living room. What is dying off is TV buying overall - purely because with digital switch-over having occurred, most people have finished upgrading their old kit.

Sorry by "small screen" I meant tablets and smartphones.

Masterpiece

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#1002719 11-Mar-2014 12:05

I wouldn't class 4k and 8k terms as standards, but part desciptions of a currently incomplete implementation of the proposed new Rec2020 standard.

Rec2020 defines 2 resolutions, 3840*2160 and 7680*4320, neither are described as 4k or 8k but as UHDTV

The current focus of displays marketed as 4k is resolution alone, these are transitional displays such as the displays were when Rec601(PAL) transitioned to Rec709, known as HD, (fullHD) or 1080 to the mass population. However the transition to Rec709 was alot easier as Rec601(PAL) colour issn't far off Rec709 which also has the same colour points as sRGB. Although sRGB is not video range.

There is a far greater scope for Rec2020 than the current technology ability.
For a start, currently there is only 1 camera that can get somewhat close to the defined colour points, the gamut is very large. The vast majority digital types are designed for P3 or DCI cinema and only broadcast or cinema display systems can achieve this standard. Consumer displays, some can achieve larger gamuts than Rec709, but only a high percentage of P3/DCi.

Gamut limitations is only 1 aspect, the source is still as PAL based DVD's were, 4:2:0 at 8bit, BD disks are still 4:2:0 at 8bit. Rec2020 allows for 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 at 10 and 12bit with frame rates ranging from 24hz to 120hz.
Current displays typically handle 4:2:2 as upgraded through the output of your BD player, it is pointless setting 4:4:4 or RGB as most typical displays degrade the signal back to 4:2:2 then back to RGB for display output. It is uncertain if the new 4k types do this, but it is highly likely they still do.

Early testing of the transport requirements(before HDMI 2.0) needed 4 * HDMI 1.4 to pass Rec2020. You will note now HDMI is listed as HDMI alone with no number. Limitations will be in the fine print.

Because the full spec of Rec2020 is still difficult to obtain if at all, the full transition to it will be years away, alot longer than Rec601(PAL) to Rec709(HD) which itself took a number of years. Infact most of us have vast stocks of Rec601 material such as PAL based DVD's.

For now the resolution aspect of Rec2020 is as much as we will see for a while yet, which brings us to the main problem of seeing a difference between 1080, 2160 or 4320 images.
The photograhic consumer will love the resolution, but the general viewer at typical viewing ranges will struggle to see a difference. A trained viewer with good eyesight might see differences, but not until the viewing angle is around 40 degrees or greater, arguably closer to 50+ degrees.
Most displays on offer are small for this viewing angle ratio, hence why I mention the photograhic group of consumers as the current offerings will suit them more currently.

There is also all sorts of chicken egg type problems for broadcast in this transition.

Me:"I'm not a robot!"

ET: "Maybe; you have some freewill, but you chose your path by arrangement"

Me "That sounds like a program with no freewill?"

ET: "We will catch up when you end this cycle"

Me: "Sounds like a 'KPI'!"

ET: "Did you read the terms and conditions?"

Me: .....

garvani

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#1005477 14-Mar-2014 11:52

And so it begins! Samsung 28" 4k screen (with 60hz via dp) from amazon for $835 delivered.. Thats the sort of price im looking for, shave another $300 off that and ill be all over it

Amazon link

DarthKermit

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#1005498 14-Mar-2014 12:21

joker97:
Buzz Bumble: ... and all the old favourites will get yet another re-re-re-release in the new format ...

I am so ready for return of the Jedi more-extended ultra-mastered 16K edition!

I suppose that George Lucas will insert Jar Jar Binks in every background scene that he can.

Whatifthespacekeyhadneverbeeninvented?

Buzz Bumble

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#1005603 14-Mar-2014 14:04

Actually, since George Lucas sold his entire business to Disney, the Super-duper Re-re-re-re-release versions will have Jar Jar Binks replaced by Goofy and Anakin Skywalker by Mickey Mouse. ;-)

According to JB Hi-Fi's freebie Stack magazine from last month (I'm a bit behind in my reading) ...

Tech Horizons 2014
Here's some tech to look out for this year.

4K, coming to discs near you
In September, the company that makes Blu-ray discs announced a new machine that can produce a triple-llayer Blu-ray disc with 100GB storage capacity - in other words, a 4K-friendly disc.

4K is the next big step up in resolution after Full HD. It quadruples the resolution of Full HD.

Until now, 4K has been held back by a lack of content, and the main reason for this has been the difficulty in finding a way to deliver content. The enhanced resolution results in a massive amount of data - too much to fit onto a conventional Blu-ray disc, and a bit excessive even for Internet streaming.

The debut of a 100GB disc may mean the start of accessible and affordable 4K Blu-ray content, potentially in the second half of next year - exciting news for home entertainment lover, especially those with a 4K TV!

BUT ...
That 100GB disc is pathetic ...

However, Sony and Panasonic have teamed up to develop a successor to Blu-ray, dubbed Archival Disc, which - as the name suggests - is designed for professional, long-term data storage rather than consumer use.

The pair said the first Archive Disc will launch in summer 2015, with an initial capacity of 300GB on the double-sided discs. That will grow to 500GB and then 1TB, as the companies improve the data density.

Full short article at PC & Tech Authority

sdav

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#1005635 14-Mar-2014 14:39

IMO I think the success of 4k and (8k lol) and future standards will be in live tv sport broadcasting. I think the reality is that the only TV content that will be delivered over the air live will be in the sporting realm. Even then I see that switching to online soon, but I think realistically it will be a while before most sports are broadcast online line in 4k.

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