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3428 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 886376 29-Aug-2013 10:06
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The YouTube videos made for a very good side-by-side comparison, making it easy for most punters to follow. Nice find.

752 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 886397 29-Aug-2013 10:49
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letmekiwi: What about something like this? http://www.lightingdirect.co.nz/products/led-lights/exterior/10m-x-6-led-cable

Or feel free to link something you think is good :)


You would have to add a power supply to that also.
That looks impossible to control since its not in any type of channel. Its essentially christmas lights and you'll struggle to tame it.
Have a look at some of the possibilities here.
http://ledstuff.co.nz/product_info.php?cPath=44&products_id=115

With corner setups, if you use a long strip-light, then the left and right sides are going to be bright and the middle will be dimmer (cause of the distance of the light to the wall). This may be precisely what suits your setup, or it might look unbalanced and noticably distracting. With a single bulb, you will be lighting up the corner join and the light will fall-off as it spreads out towards the edges of the TV.
That may look more balanced, or it might highlight things that are a distraction, like the lamp on the wall above and the sharp corner of the two right-angled walls.

Its difficult to know what will work, but a strip-light can be used either vertically or horizontally, so it has much more possibilities.





 
 
 
 




41 posts

Geek


  Reply # 886404 29-Aug-2013 11:07
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fahrenheit:
letmekiwi: What about something like this? http://www.lightingdirect.co.nz/products/led-lights/exterior/10m-x-6-led-cable

Or feel free to link something you think is good :)


You would have to add a power supply to that also.
That looks impossible to control since its not in any type of channel. Its essentially christmas lights and you'll struggle to tame it.
Have a look at some of the possibilities here.
http://ledstuff.co.nz/product_info.php?cPath=44&products_id=115

With corner setups, if you use a long strip-light, then the left and right sides are going to be bright and the middle will be dimmer (cause of the distance of the light to the wall). This may be precisely what suits your setup, or it might look unbalanced and noticably distracting. With a single bulb, you will be lighting up the corner join and the light will fall-off as it spreads out towards the edges of the TV.
That may look more balanced, or it might highlight things that are a distraction, like the lamp on the wall above and the sharp corner of the two right-angled walls.

Its difficult to know what will work, but a strip-light can be used either vertically or horizontally, so it has much more possibilities.






He-hey, you found one in cool white too!

Or I can bend the rope in U shape for a more balanced glow all around. It definitely provides possibilities, and I can just tape or hang it in the back.

Thank you very much, I'll order one and maybe provide a photo of my lair once it's all done :)

752 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 886417 29-Aug-2013 11:31
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^ Look forward to seeing it.

I couldn't cope without mine. The TV looks so much duller without it. Less fatigue when gaming too.
No good for 3D, but thats not a concern for you.


155 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 886550 29-Aug-2013 14:46
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Managed to get part of the first video loading. It makes it clear that he's getting very noticeable lag (at least when you do it like that - it may not be meaningfully laggy in most real-life usages, though obviously it's more likely in FPS games than, say, Dragon Age). How many ms does that perceptual experience translate to? Does the ST60 have a game mode that needs to be switched on, I wonder?

Seeing that video also makes me wonder what proportion of the lag I experienced with Miracast was not so much to do with MIRACAST but was just the unit's baseline latency (from any source). And whether, therefore, it's possible to get noticeably better performance with Miracast simply by turning off un-needed smart features (also, whether "game mode" turns wifi off, therefore making it hard to do what I just said with Miracast :P)

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 886618 29-Aug-2013 16:11
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psk20:Does the ST60 have a game mode that needs to be switched on, I wonder?


Yes, there is additional input lag if you do not use game mode on the ST60.

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  Reply # 886792 30-Aug-2013 00:09
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I believe game mode in the ST60 does not turn off the network connectivity... which, apparently is the main cause of the lag. Pity.

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 886795 30-Aug-2013 00:36
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^ Game mode definitely improves the lag (true for all 2012/2013 Panasonic PDPs), but even with it engaged, its still considered quite high. With it off, its astronomically high.

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Master Geek


  Reply # 887085 30-Aug-2013 14:48
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My point about game mode is that at least for that first video, the author doesn't seem to say whether game mode was on for the test. Hypothetically, if the tv was 70 with, 100 without, we can't tell if that visible lag that we can see in the video corresponds to 70 or 100. If it turned out that he had game mode off, then we would be overestimating how bad the st60 and input lag of say 70ms or so really was. My guess is that 70ms is probably noticeable though. I'm just not sure it's worth worrying about, say, 20 vs 40. Or perhaps even 20 vs 50-60?

That said it is often additive (your reaction time + controller latency + display latency + ping) and would make more difference in twitchy games (depending on the game and whether your ping was competitive to begin with, if multiplayer). I can imagine players finding that they performed worse in those games (maybe it takes them 360ms to react rather than 320, but if the quickest trigger wins the game then I guess those 40 ms would statistically have a meaningful impact) even though the difference may be hard to perceive in <40ms increments.

So changing the topic, is input lag the only substantial difference these days between monitors and TVs? My old Philips 47" LCD is horrid for text, PC user interfaces, etc. it's full HD but nasty, nasty, nasty. Is that just my TV? Just older (~6 years) TVs? Or is image quality still better (or at least sharper for PC use) in monitors?

Looking at the 42" 6620 in Harvey Norman today, it really does look comparably sharp (displaying photos, didn't look at text) to a monitor.

Also, are plas as and LCDs comparable in that regard? Putting aside image burn, how are plasmas for reading text on?

Lastly, I've decided that ideally what I'd really like as a double duty TV/Monitor is a 40" 4k display. The resolution would obviously be overkill when watching movies from a few meters away, but roll up a nice office chair with some sort of (fold-away?? Keyboard/mouse tray thingy(or simply a desk), and it'd be like a quad monitor setup - minus the bezels.

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  Reply # 887088 30-Aug-2013 15:04
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psk20: So changing the topic, is input lag the only substantial difference these days between monitors and TVs? My old Philips 47" LCD is horrid for text, PC user interfaces, etc. it's full HD but nasty, nasty, nasty. Is that just my TV? Just older (~6 years) TVs? Or is image quality still better (or at least sharper for PC use) in monitors?

Looking at the 42" 6620 in Harvey Norman today, it really does look comparably sharp (displaying photos, didn't look at text) to a monitor.


That depends on a number of factors. At the sort of close range you'd view, say, a 24" or 27" monitor from, a 42" LCD that is only HD will look (comparatively) terrible. The pixel pitch is noticeably higher in a larger monitor running equal or lower res, so the image appears blocky. As you move backwards from the TV, it becomes less noticeable. It's not really a monitors vs TV thing, it's more a resolution vs display size thing, when you're comparing similar build quality and type. 1920x1080 on a 24" display has significantly smaller pixels than 1920x1080 on a 55" display - ~90PPI vs ~40PPI. But take a few steps back, and it gets harder to tell that the large-display looks jaggy.




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Master Geek


  Reply # 887129 30-Aug-2013 16:37
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Yeah, clearly what you describe will always be an issue regardless of panel quality; it's just geometry of course. But it certainly went beyond that with my 47" Philips. It looked bad regardless of distance. At least for text, etc. And, incidentally, I only used it from the couch so it was much more than twice the distance I'd use a 23-24" monitor. So the pixels would have looked smaller to me, given the usage patterns ;)

With the 4k monitor thing, I wonder if it would feel like more vertical resolution than necessary. Hmm. I guess 2160 vertical pixels would be quite nice for word docs, code and browsing. Anyway, perhaps this is a bit of a hijack. Oops.

EDIT: just googled a ppi vs viewing distance calculator and a 46" 4k display is approximately "retina" when viewed from 3" away (ie wall mounted with desk between you). So it's probably about the optimum size (perhaps not aspect ratio but that's a separate issue) for a 4k display used at a desk. ;)



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Geek


  Reply # 887356 31-Aug-2013 12:15
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fahrenheit: ^ Look forward to seeing it.

I couldn't cope without mine. The TV looks so much duller without it. Less fatigue when gaming too.
No good for 3D, but thats not a concern for you.



I came across this rather useful topic about bias lightning: http://www.avforums.com/forums/plasma-tvs/1263485-plasma-ambient-lighting-13.html

And guess who's the local guru :))

I got my rope light yesterday, rather impressive service. Will play with it tonight, planning on going for a full square shape, seeing as I got 2m, as minimum.

752 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 887362 31-Aug-2013 12:34
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^ My set up has changed now and I haven't updated the blog with new pics, but the light itself is still the same.

It will be interesting to see how you get on with the full rectangle of rope light with a corner setup. Generally thats the kind of arrangement you'd want with a very close wall-mounted TV so that the light creates an even halo around the edge.

Best advice is to attach it in a way that is easily adjustable, then you can experiment to get the balance right.



41 posts

Geek


  Reply # 887366 31-Aug-2013 12:52
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I taped it to the wall last night, because I just got it and didn't have any tools or clips ready, and it looked something like panman40's setup: http://www.avforums.com/forums/plasma-tvs/1263485-plasma-ambient-lighting-15.html

What I'm gonna try and adjust, is so it spreads evenly around the TV, rather than accentuate the wall corner.

Also, by having it directly behind the TV, I'm hoping to use the actually TV as a blocking device, to prevent light going to the cabinet and cables.

Gah, this day at work could be any slower!



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Geek


  Reply # 887523 31-Aug-2013 19:18
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OK, finally had time to nicely sort, tuck and hide all the cabling, secure everything in my small cabinet.

I've also decided to spend a night with LED rope taped to the back of TV, and see if I like it better than when it's on the wall.

Nothing can be done about the ugly wall and things on it, so I kinda gave up on that. If only that lamp and switch were a bit more outside, so the line of light doesn't catch it. Oh well..

So here is trial attempt number 2:




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