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Topic # 133474 23-Oct-2013 14:12
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Hi Folks,
I am just doing a concept design around using an Intel NUC vesa mounted onto the back of a TV.  It will likely be running windows 8.1 and be accessed via BT keyboard and mouse.  What I would like to do is either integrate a DVB-S/S2 tuner into the device that can be used with Windows Media centre  or have a small external device that can be attached via USB that can also be accessed via Media centre?

The NUC part of things is pretty simple, it is the DVB-S/S2 tuner that I am having trouble getting.  Ideally I would like to record Freeview content and watch later.  I do not require DVB-T support, but it is ok if it is there.

I would prefer not to use s/w that requires technical knowledge to set up or maintain on the principle that the candidate users are non-technical. Anything one can't do using the normal Freeview (DVB-T) menus found on TVs and Hard Drive recorders will be considered too technical (in other words, look at a guide, choose a program, set to record, change channel is ok).  Scanning for channels is considered technical but can be done with guidance, editing config files etc. is out of the question.

Network connectivity would likely be wifi+BT (perhaps USB), output to the TV HDMI (but may be d-sub), internal expansion is mini PCI.  Unit will have an SSD so that connection will be taken up.

I figure there are people that know a lot about HTPCs and some people are already familiar with the NUC units and know what they will do or not.   Basically I am just trying to conceptualise, work out technical feasibility and get some kind of build list.


 




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  Reply # 920422 23-Oct-2013 14:57
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Not sure that having the tuner on/with the NUC itself is the best idea, mainly because recording shows will need storage and an SSD can be expensive if you want a decent size.
It may be better to look at a server-client type setup with MediaPortal or similar, that way your storage and tuners can be in the server and you can use one or more NUCs as the clients.



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  Reply # 920560 23-Oct-2013 18:25
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I thought about that, but it needs to be a pervasive device - all in one. Hence hidden on back of TV set - worst case scenario I can always drop a portable wifi NAS into the network (not sure what win 8.1 is like with iSCSI).




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  Reply # 920563 23-Oct-2013 18:34
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Two questions:

1. Why are you proposing to use Windows 8.1 when Windows 7 had the media center built in and is better supported viz., third party software and drivers etc?

2. Why bother unless it's networked? For non-technical users it will be extra grief getting an EPG running and usable compared to a mainstream FV unit (uggh I know), and it will cost significantly more than an off-the-shelf twin tuner dish unit. In return for the extra cost and complexity, what will an average non-technical user get in return?

If its for you and you want to network it, graft on features like Comskip and a DLNA server, and spend time tweaking and maintaining it then it makes perfect sense. Not sure it does for the non-technical user you state you are targeting.

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  Reply # 920603 23-Oct-2013 19:55
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Have a look at silicon homerun network attached tuner, i assume there is a dvb-s version. It works with MP, and should also work with Win MCE.

If you are not a 'technical user' then I would recommend you look at a TV-PVR rather than an HTPC.

If you are building an integrated client + server stand alone, then I'd recommend a uATX based system rather than a Kabuni/NUC type system.  They can be small enough to mount behind a tv.




HTPC: Intel i3-2100 / 12GB RAM / AMD HD7750 / 480 GB SSD / 58TB Storage / MediaPortal / MadVR / Win10
AVR: Pioneer Elite SC-LX87 220W 9.2 Ch AVR
Speakers: Wharfedale Jade 7 Fronts / Jade 2c Center / Jade 5 Rears
Subs: iNuke 3000dsp 3000W proamp with 4x 15" JBL Sealed Subs
Display: Samsung 60" UA60H6400 LCD TV
Accessories: Gefen HDMI Detective with splitter


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  Reply # 921818 25-Oct-2013 18:15
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kiwijunglist: i assume there is a dvb-s version...

Not from Silicondust, and not from any other vendor that I'm aware of. Satellite transponders can carry a lot of bandwidth. As such, transposing satellite transmissions onto IP networks is a mostly left to professionals. SAT>IP is a new consumer device standard that looks set to fill this gap in the market... but solutions are not yet mature enough for me to recommend.

kiwijunglist: If you are not a 'technical user' then I would recommend you look at a TV-PVR rather than an HTPC.

Agree.


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  Reply # 921840 25-Oct-2013 18:34
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I have to agree with the others, if you're planning this for a non technical user, you're in for a lot of headaches.

Any freeview approved product will just work, all the time. Nearly every HTPC needs tweaking once every few months. There's always something happening, either they're moving channels around, or they're moving the EPG to a different frequency, or windows update breaks something or.... you get the picture.

And don't those WIFI model NUC's have a habit of overheating with only moderate network activity? I may be overstating the problem, but there is/was definitely a heat issue.




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  Reply # 921852 25-Oct-2013 19:45
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Thanks for the replies folks.

One trend that I did notice is that people are referring to HTPCs as being the solution. Except for the last part of my post I specifically didn't refer to the solution as being an HTPC. But I do recognise that inviting people with HTPC knowledge to comment is like asking someone with a hammer to tell one how to hang a picture - and - I do recognise that with the media capability it is kind of an HTPC solution.

However, I was also hoping people would by now be aware of what Windows 8 is all about for a consumer and to be able to pick up on that side of things. In other words, consumers do more than just watch movies and browse the internet.

I haven't given all that much thought on how to put things together, only at the moment do they work together. One can think outside of the box for resolving issues, which is why I don't consider them really problems. For example, if internal Wifi causes a heat problem, then external wifi will work just fine.

I recognise that this is a technical forum and therefore people will try and apply [complex] technical solutions, but it is also useful to sometimes think of technology the same way as consumers do - remember, there are about 6 billion odd people who are not so computer literate on the planet :)

The best technology is that which people are not aware they are using.




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  Reply # 921855 25-Oct-2013 19:54
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ok, I definitely think you'd be better off with a PVR :)
most of the PVR junkies are found in this subforum
http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=83




HTPC: Intel i3-2100 / 12GB RAM / AMD HD7750 / 480 GB SSD / 58TB Storage / MediaPortal / MadVR / Win10
AVR: Pioneer Elite SC-LX87 220W 9.2 Ch AVR
Speakers: Wharfedale Jade 7 Fronts / Jade 2c Center / Jade 5 Rears
Subs: iNuke 3000dsp 3000W proamp with 4x 15" JBL Sealed Subs
Display: Samsung 60" UA60H6400 LCD TV
Accessories: Gefen HDMI Detective with splitter


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  Reply # 921882 25-Oct-2013 20:29
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You can call it PC based PVR or HTPC, it really doesn't matter, it's the same thing and the issues are the same.

I would NEVER recommend a PC based TV solution to someone "non technical". You can do cool things with a PC based system, but you must be willing to tinker when things go wrong.

To answer the original question:
http://www.ascent.co.nz/productspecification.aspx?ItemID=398398 
http://www.ascent.co.nz/productspecification.aspx?ItemID=363585 
http://www.ascent.co.nz/productspecification.aspx?ItemID=394546 

Only the last one is in stock, and I have no idea of the quality or reliability of it. 




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  Reply # 921941 26-Oct-2013 10:00
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Someone asked why I might want to use Windows 8

http:/youtu.be/FnPAZsIjXnQ
Multi Touch Display
 
 
I thought this device was a good concept of moving the TV functionality onto the network rather than in the device (a matter of rethinking the problem so it goes away).

http://youtu.be/H7BoMgAl-NM
The article is in German, but the specs are online. It is an android device.

http://youtu.be/YWMOGRh688A
Another device, but requires a good wifi network.

(I tried embedding the YouTube videos but they didn't work, neither does cut and paste, and some of the URL tags on this site for some reason - IE11. It would be good if I could turn off the auto-URL detection)




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  Reply # 921980 26-Oct-2013 10:38
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(I tried embedding the YouTube videos but they didn't work, neither does cut and paste, and some of the URL tags on this site for some reason - IE11. It would be good if I could turn off the auto-URL detection)

Totally agree. It is annoying but some many people were moaning about having to use the url tags. There are youtube tags though I think...

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  Reply # 922024 26-Oct-2013 12:45
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TwoSeven: Someone asked why I might want to use Windows 8
http:/youtu.be/FnPAZsIjXnQ
Multi Touch Display


I'm afraid that's not a Windows 8 feature, that's a hardware dongle (this one's actually a small computer on it's own) that connects directly to a display. The software to connect to it works with Win7 also.

TwoSeven: I thought this device was a good concept of moving the TV functionality onto the network rather than in the device (a matter of rethinking the problem so it goes away). 

http://youtu.be/H7BoMgAl-NM 
The article is in German, but the specs are online. It is an android device. 


This device is essentially what you want to build, but it runs android rather than windows.

TwoSeven: 
http://youtu.be/YWMOGRh688A 
Another device, but requires a good wifi network.


This one IS a network tuner. The problem I see is wifi. Wifi can be a real pig for streaming video, it's extremely prone to interference.




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