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  Reply # 72039 24-May-2007 10:46
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xlinknz: But what will I again with dvb-t I assume it is the same channels are analogue public TV except possibly some HD content ?

I would say that -- at least initially -- DVB-T will carry the same programming as on DVB-S now i.e. the FreeView consortium.  It is unlikely that there would be any HD content initially, though not impossible (pigs might fly too Wink).

xlinknz: So maybe I just spend $125 get an analog tuner card and toss it when dvb-t comes ?
...Bottom line seems get an analogue tv tuner now or ressurect the VHS until next year !

If you can live with using the VHS tuner, I would say do that.  It's a bit of a waste buying a card for only one year although it's not a lot of money I suppose...

xlinknz: ps: is dvb-t really going to be Feb 08 ?

The stated date is March 08.  There will be some sceptics, but remember that FreeView via DVB-S launched on time, so hopefully the launch of DVB-T will be similar.

Remember also that when DVB-T launches, you will get the Electronic Program Guide as part of the package, so recording will be much easier.  It will be worth the wait in your case I think.



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  Reply # 72047 24-May-2007 11:30
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so what is the big deal about dvb-t ?

I assume I need something to convert that digital signal into my TV and the content will be the same as analogue so if I have to spend money to get the same why bother ?

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  Reply # 72048 24-May-2007 11:42
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Grant17:
No doubt there will be MPEG4 versions of the Hauppage cards in the works, so I would just wait a while until you can get something that supports BOTH MPEG2 AND MPEG4.


Hang on, surely for a PC the software can do the decoding of the stream, it shouldn't matter if it's MPEG2 or MPEG4?

I posted something about this on the Hauppauge forums, and got pretty much that answer.

I'm running a Hauppauge HVR1300 DVB-T card, so I guess i'll find out in Feb for sure.

By the way, i do recommend this card, it's pretty nice and easy to use. Does fail now and then, but rarely.



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  Reply # 72053 24-May-2007 12:06
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allstarnz

I'm curious what spec is your PC ?

I assume unlike the PVR series your Hauppauge HVR1300 DVB-T card doesn't have onboard compression so your PC's CPU has to do it

When recording TV what does it do to RAM and CPU ?

I am concerned my P4 1.6 may not keep up

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  Reply # 72054 24-May-2007 12:14
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allstarnz: Hang on, surely for a PC the software can do the decoding of the stream, it shouldn't matter if it's MPEG2 or MPEG4?

As Larry says above:

Lchiu7: The PVR series are the best. They have on board hardware based MPEG2 encoders so that the CPU load of recording is offloaded to the card. The cheaper WinTV series don't do any compression so any compression has to be done by the CPU if indeed you can do any at all.

On my lowly Athlon 2000+ I can record a stream from TCL cable and watch another show at the same time and the CPU loads hardly goes up above 20%

Having the MPEG decoding in hardware is definitely a good thing and in $ terms it doesn't cost a lot more.  No doubt there will be restrictions on what the software-only approach can do for you, as in the days of WinModems versus real Hardware Modems.

allstarnz: I'm running a Hauppauge HVR1300 DVB-T card, so I guess i'll find out in Feb for sure.

Cyril would the best person to answer this question:  Are you out there somewhere Cyril???

However, he has repeatedly stated that DVB-T set top boxes brought in from overseas will NOT work with NZ's DVB-T system when it goes live next March.  In that light, I don't expect the situation regarding TV Tuner cards to be any different.

xlinknz: so what is the big deal about dvb-t ?

I assume I need something to convert that digital signal into my TV and the content will be the same as analogue so if I have to spend money to get the same why bother ?.

Advantages of DVB-T over analogue:

1)  Much clearer picture
2)  16:9 Widescreen format
3)  Additional channels to be introduced by the FreeView consortium include 24 hour News channel and a commercial-free Public Service / Doco channel
(at least that's what I remember reading, somebody please correct me if I'm wrong)

Another thing to consider is that HD will be introduced via DVB-T (and probably DVB-S) at some point.  However, it will never be available via analogue, which is due to be switched off in a few years time.

I think that about covers everything.

Cheers,
Grant.

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  Reply # 72058 24-May-2007 13:01
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xlinknz: allstarnz

I'm curious what spec is your PC ?

I assume unlike the PVR series your Hauppauge HVR1300 DVB-T card doesn't have onboard compression so your PC's CPU has to do it

When recording TV what does it do to RAM and CPU ?

I am concerned my P4 1.6 may not keep up


As noted by Grant17 a DVD-T card might not be much here since the DVB-T standard has been announced as being MPEG4.

As an aside the DVB capture cards don't do compression - the stream (for DVB-S MPEG2) is already compressed so they just need to capture the stream and write it to the local hard drive. The P4 1.6 might be okay but it would be better if the capture device was on a different drive on a separate IDE channel to avoid frame drops during the capture.

I use a PVR250 for TCL digital and that has overhead since it takes the signal is compressed MPEG2, goes into the STB to be decrypted and decoded to be displayed and then I have to capture that stream and recompress. Ideally I would capture the MPEG2 stream off the cable and it can be done but it requires a specific capture device and another device to interface with the smart card in the TCL cable boxes. Nice to have but not worth my trouble at this time


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  Reply # 72059 24-May-2007 13:08
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I am  fairly sure that TVNZ already have HD camera's so I would NOT be surprised if there is HD material available from the get go when DVB-T is released next year. Of course it will likely just be the news presenters but it would still be HD.

The word currently at least is that HD will not be released over DVB-S. That may change but I would not say in the short to medium term.

Personally I am waiting for next year and will not be going DVB-S at all as I will be able to get DVB-T and therefore HD.

FreeView have already impressed me as for added value with the V8 supercars channel.







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  Reply # 72063 24-May-2007 13:52
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Whether or not TVNZ has HD cameras, most of the US content they show originates in HD. So getting content isn't an issue.


I can sort of see why HD won't be over DVB-S - it would mean all those of us who have purchased either official or unofficial DVB-S boxes would have them obsoleted immediately. Better to do it over DVB-T and only offer HD capable DVD-T STB's in the marketplace

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System Two: Popcorn Hour A200 ,  Oppo BDP-80 BluRay Player with hardware mode to be region free, Vivitek HD1080P 1080P DLP projector with 100" screen. Harman Kardon HK AVR 254 7.1 receiver, Samsung 4K player, Google Chromecast

 


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  Reply # 72066 24-May-2007 14:06
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Another thing to consider is that HD will be introduced via DVB-T (and probably DVB-S) at some point.  However, it will never be available via analogue, which is due to be switched off in a few years time.


Switched off ? - It is expected  that when this occurs that everyone has to pay for a STB to convert DVB-T otherwise no TV ?

I'm still confused about DVB-T mpeg4 in that, if the broadcast is in mpeg4 the tv tuner is just required to capture the stream I assume from a DVB-T STB or would the card itself be the STB hence the requirement for it to support mpeg4 ?

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  Reply # 72067 24-May-2007 14:13
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I'm curious what spec is your PC ?

I assume unlike the PVR series your Hauppauge HVR1300 DVB-T card doesn't have onboard compression so your PC's CPU has to do it

When recording TV what does it do to RAM and CPU ?


I'm using a Core 2 Duo E6300 running slightly overclocked, with 2GB RAM

The HVR1300 has an inbuilt MPEG2 encoder, so the load on the CPU is minimal.

"Built-in high performance analogue TV recorder, with hardware MPEG-2 encoder. Record digital or analogue TV to disk using high quality MPEG-2!"

I could chuck it into my Athlon 2000XP to see how it goes with that.

The RAM usage for capping is minimal, it's just whether you CPU can keep up with encoding the data, and your HDD keep up with writing the data

The software for most TV cards does the decoding as I understand it, be it WinTV or VLC (for example)

The reason most DVB-T set top boxes will be useless is because they have decoders built into the chipset.  A PC can use a piece of software to decode the stream.

here is the reply I got on the Hauppauge forum:
The TV card itself doesn't care whether the streams are MPEG2 or MPEG4. The only thing that matters is the modulation type used, and as far as I know this is the same irrespective of whether it's MPEG2 and MPEG4.

As long as you can find software which supports MPEG4 (WinTV2000 doesn't), you won't have any problems.


The big advantage of DVB-T is cost. You will be able to hook up your DVB-T set top box to your existing UHF aerial, so no expensive dishes to buy. The only disadvantage is if you're in the wops, you might not get digital terrestrial straight away if at all.


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  Reply # 72068 24-May-2007 14:17
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xlinknz: Switched off ? - It is expected  that when this occurs that everyone has to pay for a STB to convert DVB-T otherwise no TV ?



In a nutshell the answer is yes. From what I've read in numerous places we probably won't see this happening until maybe 2015 at the earliest. That gives you another 8 years still. By the end of next year I doubt you'll see many flat screen TV's on sale in NZ that don't have integrated DVB-T tuners so there won't be a need to buy a seperate STB. There are already quite a few European TV's with both DVB-T and DVB-S tuners built it, again I suspect this is something that we will see in NZ over time.





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  Reply # 72069 24-May-2007 14:18
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xlinknz: Switched off ? - It is expected  that when this occurs that everyone has to pay for a STB to convert DVB-T otherwise no TV ?

In the US and some European countries, analogue TV will be switched off in the next 2 or 3 years if I remember correctly.

It's likely to take a little longer to happen in NZ, but by 2015 or so, you will probably need to have a STB or DVB-capable TV Tuner Card of some sort to receive any TV at all.  Keep in mind though that DVB-S STBs are currently selling for just over $100 and DVB-T versions will probably be priced in a similar range by the time they arrive next year.  It's probably about 1/4 the cost of a trolley of groceries at your local supermarket or about one tank of fuel... Frown

xlinknz: I'm still confused about DVB-T mpeg4 in that, if the broadcast is in mpeg4 the tv tuner is just required to capture the stream I assume from a DVB-T STB or would the card itself be the STB hence the requirement for it to support mpeg4 ?

It looks like I need to explain a little further here:

1)  If you use a DVB-T STB and then Video Capture from that, it defeats the purpose because first the video is decoded from the incoming MPEG4 stream into analogue, then you are digitising and compressing it all over again = 2 lots of degradation.

2)  Your second assumption is the correct one i.e. that the card itself takes place of the STB and decodes MPEG4 for viewing, or streams the encoded data to your hard disk for viewing later.

Hence it will be best to wait until MPEG4 capable DVB-T Tuner cards become available.  Then you will have all the bases covered.

Somebody else made an excellent point earlier about the V8 Supercars being available on FreeView.  That is the type of extra programming you will not be able to access if you stick with analogue TV.

I hope that helps.

Cheers,
Grant.



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  Reply # 72075 24-May-2007 14:47
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Grant and everyone else thank you for tv tuner card/dvb-t/mpeg4 101

indeed dvb-t mpeg4 is very new, FYI sbiddle mentioned a pilot in London, France has anounced it and Norway started in Jan this year to finish by Sept I suspect current implementations are restricted to STBs obviously supporting mpeg4 rather than PC solutions

Could be time to work out why my VCR records noisly, maybe clean its heads !

again thanks all




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  Reply # 72096 24-May-2007 16:41
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allstarnz:

here is the reply I got on the Hauppauge forum:

The TV card itself doesn't care whether the streams are MPEG2 or MPEG4. The only thing that matters is the modulation type used, and as far as I know this is the same irrespective of whether it's MPEG2 and MPEG4.

As long as you can find software which supports MPEG4 (WinTV2000 doesn't), you won't have any problems.





That's interesting. That seems to imply that a current DVB-T card would
work with the planned DVB-T transmissions that Freeview are planning
which are supposed to be MPEG4. I would imagine that it could even work
with a HD stream


The big advantage of DVB-T is cost. You will be able to hook up your DVB-T set top box to your existing UHF aerial, so no expensive dishes to buy. The only disadvantage is if you're in the wops, you might not get digital terrestrial straight away if at all.



I think the ROT here is, if your current UHF reception (I guess Prime or UHF Sky) is poor, then you are going to be disappointed with DVB-T transmissions

Larry




System One: Popcorn Hour A200,  PS3 SuperSlim, NPVR and Plex Server running on Gigabyte Brix (Windows 10 Pro), Sony BDP-S390 BD player, Pioneer AVR, Raspberry Pi running Kodi and Plex, Panasonic 60" 3D plasma, Google Chromecast

System Two: Popcorn Hour A200 ,  Oppo BDP-80 BluRay Player with hardware mode to be region free, Vivitek HD1080P 1080P DLP projector with 100" screen. Harman Kardon HK AVR 254 7.1 receiver, Samsung 4K player, Google Chromecast

 


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  Reply # 72097 24-May-2007 16:41
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Grant17:
xlinknz: Switched off ? - It is expected  that when this occurs that everyone has to pay for a STB to convert DVB-T otherwise no TV ?

In the US and some European countries, analogue TV will be switched off in the next 2 or 3 years if I remember correctly.

It's likely to take a little longer to happen in NZ, but by 2015 or so, you will probably need to have a STB or DVB-capable TV Tuner Card of some sort to receive any TV at all. 


By 2015 I would expect (read "hope" :p) that we will see Television delivered via the internet too as a mainstream delivery method.




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