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166 posts

Master Geek
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Topic # 157564 4-Dec-2014 21:49
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Okay so I'm a bit torn with the best compromise to get the most out of the hardware i have. I cant justify spending any more money on upgrades at the moment, so i have to make this work one way or another probably for 6-12 months.

The hardware:
-PC = I5 3570K, 128g SSD, 16 gig RAM, DVB-S card, Blu-Ray drive
-Laptop = Core 2 duo, 64gb SSD, 4gig RAM
-TV = Samsung "Smart" Tv

Functions I want:

Win 8 OS -
AutoCAD
Creative Cloud

? OS - (happy for this to be on any OS just want the good performance and mostly easy of use)
HTPC stuff with DVB-S recording, various playback, probably using media portal


I'm currently shuffling machines between locations in the house doing different duty in different places wasting time.
I really want to get away from using CAD and Creative cloud on my laptop as its just a bit sluggish.
I would rather keep the HTPC stuff and productivity stuff on separate OS' so I can wipe them out independently (i probably reformat most of my windows installs every 2-3 months)

So my current thinking is I could site the PC behind the TV install Windows 8.1 pro and install HTPC stuff on that then using client hyper V i could have another instance of 8.1 home or pro in a VM with the productivity software and remote desktop from the laptop to PC.
I'm hoping this will give me better performance than the laptop but obviously not as good as if it was the only thing on the PC

I do need to be able to use the productivity software without impacting DVB-S play and record.

I had previously thought about using Hyper V server and running both as VMs but this way i would need another computer to feed the TV screen i believe, or use one of the smart TV apps like plex but i haven't had many good experiences with this especially when i want to play Blu-rays.


Thoughts, Comments, Suggestions please.

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339 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1189015 4-Dec-2014 22:38
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I've been playing with client Hyper-V the past few days. It has been an interesting experience.

First, compared to vmware, the networking options are definitely not as flexible, especially if you want seamless NAT capabilities. In fact, I am *cough cough* using the vmware network adapters with my hyper-v setup.

Otherwise, I do like having Hyper-V having the capabilities of starting and stopping the VM's on system start and shutdown.

Using RemoteApps is awsome, however this is not available with windows 8.1 pro hosts, so you will have to use full remote desktop to access your programs in the VM. (I am a student, so I am using Server 2012 in my VM)

The guest OS is not noticeably slower than my host OS, so speed shouldn't be an issue. I have used AutoCAD over a WAN link before using remote desktop, so that is definitely usable on a LAN.

If you go down the Hyper-V route, be aware that this does NOT play nice with any other virtualisation software. vmware simply refuses to run, and other software has no hardware acceleration.

Just a few random thoughts on the matter. I don't see why your proposal wouldn't work.

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 1189020 4-Dec-2014 22:44
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I'm not you can virtualise a DVB s card, unless you have a usb one. And hyper v doesn't allow even that.

I've virtualised a recording server, but the tuner was a network based HDHomeRun (dvbt)




Previously known as psycik

NextPVR: 
Gigabyte AMD A8 Brix --> Samsung LA46A650D via HDMI, NextPVR,
OpenHAB: ODroid C2 eMMC DriveOpenHAB with Aeotech ZWave Controller, Raspberry PI, Wemos D1 Mini, Zwave and Bluetooth LE Sensors
Media:Chromecast v2, ATV4, Roku3, HDHomeRun Dual
Windows 2012 
Host (Plex Server/Crashplan): 2x2TB, 2x3TB, 1x4TB using DriveBender, Samsung 850 evo 512 GB SSD, Hyper-V Server with 1xW10, 1xW2k8, 2xUbuntu 16.04 LTS, Crashplan, NextPVR channel for Plex,NextPVR Metadata Agent and Scanner for Plex


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1189079 5-Dec-2014 07:13
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davidcole: I'm not you can virtualise a DVB s card, unless you have a usb one. And hyper v doesn't allow even that.

I've virtualised a recording server, but the tuner was a network based HDHomeRun (dvbt)


The way I read it, the 'HTPC' would be the host, and the 'Productivity' Machine would be virtualised.

But yeah, without Intel VT-d, you aren't going to get anywhere with a tuner card. (can client hyper-v even use VT-d?)

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  Reply # 1189154 5-Dec-2014 09:32
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Wouldn't it be better to dual boot?



166 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 1189166 5-Dec-2014 09:52
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Yabanize: Wouldn't it be better to dual boot?

Both need to be available at the same time.



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Master Geek
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  Reply # 1189172 5-Dec-2014 10:03
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shermanp:
davidcole: I'm not you can virtualise a DVB s card, unless you have a usb one. And hyper v doesn't allow even that.

I've virtualised a recording server, but the tuner was a network based HDHomeRun (dvbt)


The way I read it, the 'HTPC' would be the host, and the 'Productivity' Machine would be virtualised.

But yeah, without Intel VT-d, you aren't going to get anywhere with a tuner card. (can client hyper-v even use VT-d?)

Hyper v requires VT-d

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  Reply # 1189200 5-Dec-2014 11:00
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Just do Windows 8.1 as the host on the desktop with the recording software, media stuff etc. You can then enable hyper-V and install a second copy of Windows on the VM, maybe 8.1 again or 7 or something. Give it 8+gb of RAM and access to 2-3 cores. Put the vhd on a second drive as you won't really have space on a 128GB SSD. Install your CAD etc on that.
When you need to work with CAD, simply RDP to your virtual desktop. If you have 8.1 all round, you can even enable the hyper-V console on the laptop, connect the console to the desktop and then you can fire up and shut down the VM without touching the desktop. It should be fast enough even over wireless. 




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339 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1189253 5-Dec-2014 12:02
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Gozer:
shermanp:
davidcole: I'm not you can virtualise a DVB s card, unless you have a usb one. And hyper v doesn't allow even that.

I've virtualised a recording server, but the tuner was a network based HDHomeRun (dvbt)


The way I read it, the 'HTPC' would be the host, and the 'Productivity' Machine would be virtualised.

But yeah, without Intel VT-d, you aren't going to get anywhere with a tuner card. (can client hyper-v even use VT-d?)

Hyper v requires VT-d


I believe Hyper-V requires VT-x, which is the "standard" virtualization acceleration.

VT-d allows you to do fancy stuff like pass through actual hardware to the VM



166 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 1189283 5-Dec-2014 12:40
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shermanp:
Gozer:
shermanp:
davidcole: I'm not you can virtualise a DVB s card, unless you have a usb one. And hyper v doesn't allow even that.

I've virtualised a recording server, but the tuner was a network based HDHomeRun (dvbt)


The way I read it, the 'HTPC' would be the host, and the 'Productivity' Machine would be virtualised.

But yeah, without Intel VT-d, you aren't going to get anywhere with a tuner card. (can client hyper-v even use VT-d?)

Hyper v requires VT-d


I believe Hyper-V requires VT-x, which is the "standard" virtualization acceleration.

VT-d allows you to do fancy stuff like pass through actual hardware to the VM


Ahh yes apologies.



166 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 1189284 5-Dec-2014 12:41
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paulmilbank: Just do Windows 8.1 as the host on the desktop with the recording software, media stuff etc. You can then enable hyper-V and install a second copy of Windows on the VM, maybe 8.1 again or 7 or something. Give it 8+gb of RAM and access to 2-3 cores. Put the vhd on a second drive as you won't really have space on a 128GB SSD. Install your CAD etc on that.
When you need to work with CAD, simply RDP to your virtual desktop. If you have 8.1 all round, you can even enable the hyper-V console on the laptop, connect the console to the desktop and then you can fire up and shut down the VM without touching the desktop. It should be fast enough even over wireless. 

Yep that was the plan, good that it sounds like it will work.

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  Reply # 1189286 5-Dec-2014 12:43
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paulmilbank: Just do Windows 8.1 as the host on the desktop with the recording software, media stuff etc. You can then enable hyper-V and install a second copy of Windows on the VM



pretty much what the OP was initially thinking, and I think it sounds reasonable.  I agree that a second (or larger) ssd would make sense.

If you're thinking of wipe+reload of the host, then look into VHD boot - it makes it much easier to manage.




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166 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 1189525 5-Dec-2014 17:31
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Regs:
paulmilbank: Just do Windows 8.1 as the host on the desktop with the recording software, media stuff etc. You can then enable hyper-V and install a second copy of Windows on the VM



pretty much what the OP was initially thinking, and I think it sounds reasonable.  I agree that a second (or larger) ssd would make sense.

If you're thinking of wipe+reload of the host, then look into VHD boot - it makes it much easier to manage.


Awesome Regs thats good to know, is there any downsides to using VHD booting?

JWR

739 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 237


  Reply # 1189688 5-Dec-2014 23:21

Gozer:
Regs:
paulmilbank: Just do Windows 8.1 as the host on the desktop with the recording software, media stuff etc. You can then enable hyper-V and install a second copy of Windows on the VM



pretty much what the OP was initially thinking, and I think it sounds reasonable.  I agree that a second (or larger) ssd would make sense.

If you're thinking of wipe+reload of the host, then look into VHD boot - it makes it much easier to manage.


Awesome Regs thats good to know, is there any downsides to using VHD booting?


A bit of a hit in performance. But, much less noticeable on a SSD.

1088 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 1190549 8-Dec-2014 12:48
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Personally I run VirtualBox on my win7 HTPC with a centos VM for domain controller and anything else linux I need to do.




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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 1190588 8-Dec-2014 13:37
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paulmilbank: Put the vhd on a second drive 


This +1

For work I always insist on having 2 drives (SSD or otherwise) for running VM's off the second drive. Don't rely on a external USB drive - I found out the hard way 5 minutes before a presentation when my external drive slipped off the podium and never recovered.

Anyway, current work "ultrabook" is an HP Folio 9470m. It was the only thing at the time that met my requirements of user accessible RAM/battery and has an additional drive bay (main drive is SSD). I usually run 1-2 vm's so 16GB RAM is a must and second drive reduces disk contention.

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