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2751 posts

Uber Geek


# 180574 14-Sep-2015 11:42
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Thinking ahead for the possibility of getting one of the new Apple TVs, but can't stand losing picture quality through transcoding and don't want to have to manually remux mkv files. I can deal with transcoding of audio, but not video.

The new Apple TV is not out, but looks like it will have similar limitations as the PS3 in regards to streaming local content (i.e. both support x264, but not the MKV container; neither support DTS on streamed files). So can anyone answer the following questions for how it handles the following on PS3 (and presumably also on the new Apple TV):

1. An x264 MKV. Does it remux the video on the fly (no quality loss), or transcode (quality loss)?
2. If the video is supported but not the audio; does it transcode both, or does it direct stream the video and just transcode the audio?
3. Depending on the answers to 1 and 2; what about an MKV with x264 video and DTS audio? Can it remux the video and transcode the audio?

Thanks in advance.




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3344 posts

Uber Geek

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Vocus

  # 1387103 14-Sep-2015 11:59
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Plex tends to do the minimum necessary, this from experience with an Android as the player:

1. An x264 MKV. Does it remux the video on the fly (no quality loss), or transcode (quality loss)?
Remux only, if the player supports the video codec.

2. If the video is supported but not the audio; does it transcode both, or does it direct stream the video and just transcode the audio?
Direct video, transcode audio.

3. Depending on the answers to 1 and 2; what about an MKV with x264 video and DTS audio? Can it remux the video and transcode the audio?
Yes.

3338 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1387109 14-Sep-2015 12:05
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I take it you don't have a reasonably new smart tv? I would have thought file limitations are almost a thing of the past with the built in media players these days.

I have a 2012/13 Panasonic plasma - use Kodi as a media store/library on a couple of devices, enable the uPnP sharing and browse using the built in player. Almost everything I throw at my tv is played native with no modification/caching/muxing etc. Including multi channel audio streams out to the amp.
http://kodi.wiki/view/UPnP/Server

Worth a test before spending more money.





 
 
 
 




2751 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1387341 14-Sep-2015 17:41
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Oblivian: I take it you don't have a reasonably new smart tv? I would have thought file limitations are almost a thing of the past with the built in media players these days.

I have a 2012/13 Panasonic plasma - use Kodi as a media store/library on a couple of devices, enable the uPnP sharing and browse using the built in player. Almost everything I throw at my tv is played native with no modification/caching/muxing etc. Including multi channel audio streams out to the amp.
http://kodi.wiki/view/UPnP/Server

Worth a test before spending more money.






I do have a reasonably new smart TV Panasonic Plasma VT50 (possibly the same as yours). While it supports most file formats it stretches widescreen movies (1920x800) vertically to fit the full screen (1920x1080).



2751 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1387343 14-Sep-2015 17:42
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ubergeeknz: Plex tends to do the minimum necessary, this from experience with an Android as the player:

1. An x264 MKV. Does it remux the video on the fly (no quality loss), or transcode (quality loss)?
Remux only, if the player supports the video codec.

2. If the video is supported but not the audio; does it transcode both, or does it direct stream the video and just transcode the audio?
Direct video, transcode audio.

3. Depending on the answers to 1 and 2; what about an MKV with x264 video and DTS audio? Can it remux the video and transcode the audio?
Yes.


That sounds quite promising, thanks.

670 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1387355 14-Sep-2015 18:07
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Have you considered a RPi2 and software like OpenELEC?

3338 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1387378 14-Sep-2015 18:40
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Paul1977:
Oblivian: I take it you don't have a reasonably new smart tv? I would have thought file limitations are almost a thing of the past with the built in media players these days.

I have a 2012/13 Panasonic plasma - use Kodi as a media store/library on a couple of devices, enable the uPnP sharing and browse using the built in player. Almost everything I throw at my tv is played native with no modification/caching/muxing etc. Including multi channel audio streams out to the amp.
http://kodi.wiki/view/UPnP/Server

Worth a test before spending more money.






I do have a reasonably new smart TV Panasonic Plasma VT50 (possibly the same as yours). While it supports most file formats it stretches widescreen movies (1920x800) vertically to fit the full screen (1920x1080).


Yep, ST50.

And also, odd.

Just double checked with Kodi streaming, I have 3 aspect options. Of which Aspect1 is the default and I see bars on WS data. Seems to fit to width only. Aspect2 (change in options while playing) fills to top of screen. And original, which does some odd shrink

2802 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1388294 15-Sep-2015 23:27
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Id recommend a roku over a pi.




HTPC: Intel i3-2100 / 12GB RAM / AMD HD7750 / 480 GB SSD / 58TB Storage / MediaPortal / MadVR / Win10
AVR: Pioneer Elite SC-LX87 220W 9.2 Ch AVR
Speakers: Wharfedale Jade 7 Fronts / Jade 2c Center / Jade 5 Rears
Subs: iNuke 3000dsp 3000W proamp with 4x 15" JBL Sealed Subs
Display: Samsung 60" UA60H6400 LCD TV
Accessories: Gefen HDMI Detective with splitter


 
 
 
 


3344 posts

Uber Geek

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  # 1388411 16-Sep-2015 10:00
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kiwijunglist: Id recommend a roku over a pi.


Seconded.  Great players.  No mucking about.  To use Plex you need a Plex pass or an expensive app purchase, but it's worth it IMO.



2751 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1388442 16-Sep-2015 10:56
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PANiCnz: Have you considered a RPi2 and software like OpenELEC?


I have an RPi2, but haven't set it up yet. Problem with that is there is not good solution to use Netflix on it.

670 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1388446 16-Sep-2015 11:07
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Can someone explain to me why people are so fizzed about plex and transcoding? In this day and age nearly every device can handle x264 @ 1080p.

2802 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1388464 16-Sep-2015 12:07
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Not every video is x264. Some devices can't support 5.1 aac or ac3. Some devices won't support x265.

Transcoding is more for legacy devices or future format support.

I agree that most people will rarely use Transcoding if at all.




HTPC: Intel i3-2100 / 12GB RAM / AMD HD7750 / 480 GB SSD / 58TB Storage / MediaPortal / MadVR / Win10
AVR: Pioneer Elite SC-LX87 220W 9.2 Ch AVR
Speakers: Wharfedale Jade 7 Fronts / Jade 2c Center / Jade 5 Rears
Subs: iNuke 3000dsp 3000W proamp with 4x 15" JBL Sealed Subs
Display: Samsung 60" UA60H6400 LCD TV
Accessories: Gefen HDMI Detective with splitter




2751 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1388467 16-Sep-2015 12:16
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kiwijunglist: Id recommend a roku over a pi.


What things can't a Roku do?

2802 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1388469 16-Sep-2015 12:20
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Make popcorn.




HTPC: Intel i3-2100 / 12GB RAM / AMD HD7750 / 480 GB SSD / 58TB Storage / MediaPortal / MadVR / Win10
AVR: Pioneer Elite SC-LX87 220W 9.2 Ch AVR
Speakers: Wharfedale Jade 7 Fronts / Jade 2c Center / Jade 5 Rears
Subs: iNuke 3000dsp 3000W proamp with 4x 15" JBL Sealed Subs
Display: Samsung 60" UA60H6400 LCD TV
Accessories: Gefen HDMI Detective with splitter




2751 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1388484 16-Sep-2015 12:28
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kiwijunglist: Not every video is x264. Some devices can't support 5.1 aac or ac3. Some devices won't support x265.

Transcoding is more for legacy devices or future format support.

I agree that most people will rarely use Transcoding if at all.


I disagree that it is mainly for legacy support. Many devices are happy with x264, but don't support the MKV file container (PS3 and Apple TV 4 are good examples), and neither of these support DTS audio on streamed files either. Then there is PS4, which actually does support MKV, but is again limited in the audio formats it supports.

But the problem is that transcoding is awful.

Ideally I want something that will play anything I throw at it without transcoding or remuxing video or audio. Also want Netflix etc. so the idea of an app store seems like a good idea.

I currently use a WDTV live for local streaming, but it's such a slow ugly interface, and seeking etc is painful.





2751 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1388485 16-Sep-2015 12:30
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kiwijunglist: Make popcorn.


If that's really all it can't do that would be awesome.

How about local streaming services like Lightbox, Neon, TVNZ On Demand, and TV3 On Demand?

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