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2367 posts

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  #1470569 14-Jan-2016 09:44
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Masterpiece: Sigh... I hate the 4k label, it's 2160p

I believe some caution needs to be exercised with purchases currently, there will be some compatibility issues with displays and peripherals until the delivery system standardizes.

Just consider that from HDMI1.0 which took a number of years to settle too 1.4, HDMI2.0 became 2.0a recently to include HDR, but really there is no content yet, not unto the players actually come to market, which may be 2~3rd quarter this year. There will be revisions once these come to market, that is the harsh reality, but I see obsolescence with displays right now.

Another issue with HDMI, I'm just testing a video processor which is a 4k in and output device. It is becoming apparent cables are going to be a problem for some. The new HDMI 2.0a 4k chips are sensitive to cables, where active cables seem to work best. There are cheap active cables, so it isn't so much a cost thing but a type thing. Can your wall run HDMI cable handle 18Gbps?? Many are just 9Gbps. I'm have trouble with a RX-A3040 receiver in this mix as well.

With the above, be aware that currently Rec2020 is not being implemented yet other than resolution which is for the most of us an up scaled video processor(if you have one) or display result. Currently you only have Rec709 at 8bit with more resolution.

When the players come, with a 2160p source it could well be 10bit at true 422 or even 444

Personally I'm not going 2160p until the transport and some content is on the shelves.

Oh the size and distance thing, I sit 3m from a 106in screen and it's verging on being to far(about 30degrees viewing angle). For 2160p I'll probably go scope 2.35~2.4 out to 120in+, and stay at 3m distance.
The problem with displays even 75~80in types, is that to appreciate the 2160p material you need to be about 2m from the screen. From memory roughly 50degrees viewing angle. Frankly I find panels uncomfortable at close ranges.

However as others allude to that they find the viewing distance thing difficult, part of this is explained in processing, steps and increments in grey scale with correctly adjusted white balance and ETOF(gamma in old terms) convince your brain of greater sharpness, detail and even more apparent colour.

Just some things to consider at the moment.




Nope

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  #1470879 14-Jan-2016 14:34
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Jaxson:
Masterpiece:  Can your wall run HDMI cable handle 18Gbps??


Definitely!  I paid extra at Harvey Norman 5 years ago for the 'High Speed' gold ones.  They cost much more than the others, so I know I'm safe...


Youre in for a shock then ;)

I bought one of those based on it being High speed, therefore good for 18GBPs under the HDMI 2.0 spec and it being labled with all sorts of fancy words.

Didnt work. At all. At least the dynamix one would get an image, even if covered in sparkles and lines and dropouts.

In the end a $30 one from amazon did the trick perfectly. Its only 30 feet, not 10 meters but close enough for my use, and this is on a pc that is only able to do 8bit rgb over it at 60Hz, nothing fancy like deep colour etc, which I only seem to be able to send to the tv at 30Hz and worked on the crappy cables.




Richard rich.ms

 
 
 
 


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  #1470902 14-Jan-2016 14:54
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Masterpiece: Sigh... I hate the 4k label, it's 2160p

I believe some caution needs to be exercised with purchases currently, there will be some compatibility issues with displays and peripherals until the delivery system standardizes.

Just consider that from HDMI1.0 which took a number of years to settle too 1.4, HDMI2.0 became 2.0a recently to include HDR, but really there is no content yet, not unto the players actually come to market, which may be 2~3rd quarter this year. There will be revisions once these come to market, that is the harsh reality, but I see obsolescence with displays right now.

Another issue with HDMI, I'm just testing a video processor which is a 4k in and output device. It is becoming apparent cables are going to be a problem for some. The new HDMI 2.0a 4k chips are sensitive to cables, where active cables seem to work best. There are cheap active cables, so it isn't so much a cost thing but a type thing. Can your wall run HDMI cable handle 18Gbps?? Many are just 9Gbps. I'm have trouble with a RX-A3040 receiver in this mix as well.

With the above, be aware that currently Rec2020 is not being implemented yet other than resolution which is for the most of us an up scaled video processor(if you have one) or display result. Currently you only have Rec709 at 8bit with more resolution.

When the players come, with a 2160p source it could well be 10bit at true 422 or even 444

Personally I'm not going 2160p until the transport and some content is on the shelves.

Oh the size and distance thing, I sit 3m from a 106in screen and it's verging on being to far(about 30degrees viewing angle). For 2160p I'll probably go scope 2.35~2.4 out to 120in+, and stay at 3m distance.
The problem with displays even 75~80in types, is that to appreciate the 2160p material you need to be about 2m from the screen. From memory roughly 50degrees viewing angle. Frankly I find panels uncomfortable at close ranges.

However as others allude to that they find the viewing distance thing difficult, part of this is explained in processing, steps and increments in grey scale with correctly adjusted white balance and ETOF(gamma in old terms) convince your brain of greater sharpness, detail and even more apparent colour.

Just some things to consider at the moment.




So much wrong with this post I am not sure where to start, so I won't. 

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  #1470905 14-Jan-2016 14:57
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richms:
Jaxson:
Masterpiece:  Can your wall run HDMI cable handle 18Gbps??


Definitely!  I paid extra at Harvey Norman 5 years ago for the 'High Speed' gold ones.  They cost much more than the others, so I know I'm safe...


Youre in for a shock then ;)


No way, I tell you it cost heaps, so it MUST be good.... obviously....


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  #1471035 14-Jan-2016 16:14
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Jaxson:
richms:
Jaxson:
Masterpiece:  Can your wall run HDMI cable handle 18Gbps??


Definitely!  I paid extra at Harvey Norman 5 years ago for the 'High Speed' gold ones.  They cost much more than the others, so I know I'm safe...


Youre in for a shock then ;)


No way, I tell you it cost heaps, so it MUST be good.... obviously....



Holy Christoper Robin!

I have decided I am going to stop selling AV Software to my customers and connect their router to the internet with one of these cables!


247 posts

Master Geek


  #1471149 14-Jan-2016 17:33
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br>


So much wrong with this post I am not sure where to start, so I won't. 


Really? Please justify the comment or don't trouble yourself to do so.







For HDMI, Redmere active cables have been advised by the manufacture of this 4K video processor, although yet to get some.

Not badly priced.
http://www.monoprice.com/category?c_id=102&cp_id=10255

The manufacture of this device has advised that the way the 4k chipsets work he says they are really overwhelming the poorer HDMI cables.
So the advise is, if you upgrade at some point and you get blank screens or other weirdness, try alternate cables first.

Oh also he recommends no less that 2m length as well.




Me:"I'm not a robot!"

 

ET: "Maybe; you have some freewill, but you chose your path by arrangement"

 

Me "That sounds like a program with no freewill?"

 

ET: "We will catch up when you end this cycle"

 

Me: "Sounds like a 'KPI'!"

 

ET: "Did you read the terms and conditions?"

 

Me: .....

3804 posts

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  #1471359 14-Jan-2016 21:28
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networkn:
Jaxson:
richms:
Jaxson:
Masterpiece:  Can your wall run HDMI cable handle 18Gbps??


Definitely!  I paid extra at Harvey Norman 5 years ago for the 'High Speed' gold ones.  They cost much more than the others, so I know I'm safe...


Youre in for a shock then ;)


No way, I tell you it cost heaps, so it MUST be good.... obviously....



Holy Christoper Robin!

I have decided I am going to stop selling AV Software to my customers and connect their router to the internet with one of these cables!



Where did you buy this? Or have you grabbed a pic from the interwebs?

 
 
 
 


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  #1471361 14-Jan-2016 21:30
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Stumbled upon this on the web and had a chuckle ;)

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  #1471374 14-Jan-2016 21:41
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kopkiwi / networkn...
Please show your work re: Masterpiece's post.



On a personal level, I've had an issue with a redmere HDMI cable and a UHD capable Panasonic when run through a new (HDCP 2.2 capable) AVR.
I'll be interested to see how many cables can handle the new UHD Blu-ray's... many cables bring big claims to the game, how many can back it up?

I have a hunch that a lot of marginal setups will be unmitigated disasters, but hey, that's the price early adopters will pay.


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  #1471499 15-Jan-2016 07:31
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Dunnersfella: I have a hunch that a lot of marginal setups will be unmitigated disasters, but hey, that's the price early adopters will pay.



Well that plus the huge initial costs, followed quickly by lack of compatibility once standards change and start to firm up.

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  #1471522 15-Jan-2016 07:49
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I have a hunch that a lot of marginal setups will be unmitigated disasters, but hey, that's the price early adopters will pay.



Unmitigated DISASTER? Really? 

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  #1471648 15-Jan-2016 09:54
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Dunnersfella: kopkiwi / networkn...
Please show your work re: Masterpiece's post.


Yep, I agree. If you're going to more than insinuate that someone's talking bollox, back it up with evidence.


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Master Geek


  #1471761 15-Jan-2016 11:11
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Dunnersfella: .

On a personal level, I've had an issue with a redmere HDMI cable and a UHD capable Panasonic when run through a new (HDCP 2.2 capable) AVR.
I'll be interested to see how many cables can handle the new UHD Blu-ray's... many cables bring big claims to the game, how many can back it up?

I have a hunch that a lot of marginal setups will be unmitigated disasters, but hey, that's the price early adopters will pay.



Was this Redmere an "Active" or passive type HDMI?

The active types have a chip to do magic to the signal, some are 1 direction orientation cables.




Me:"I'm not a robot!"

 

ET: "Maybe; you have some freewill, but you chose your path by arrangement"

 

Me "That sounds like a program with no freewill?"

 

ET: "We will catch up when you end this cycle"

 

Me: "Sounds like a 'KPI'!"

 

ET: "Did you read the terms and conditions?"

 

Me: .....

23389 posts

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  #1472138 15-Jan-2016 18:21
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They are single direction cables. They also seem to have issues with the power on order that are not present on other cables. Possibly solved in later ones, but who wants to remove "cables" because of a software problem in them.

I would like to see a low cost HDMI over fiber solution come out, so no worries of length or upgradability of the inwall stuff. I have a feeling cat6 extenders will not cut it for 8k whenever that makes it out off the CES floor and into noel leemings.




Richard rich.ms

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  #1472163 15-Jan-2016 19:23
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networkn:
 
I have a hunch that a lot of marginal setups will be unmitigated disasters, but hey, that's the price early adopters will pay.



Unmitigated DISASTER? Really? 


Over stated, granted.

Now please explain your attack on Masterpiece's post.

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