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  # 1747745 25-Mar-2017 22:49
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I found that if you are close, the dipoles are less annoying.

 

Problem with having the rears really close, is that a small movement of yourself is a large percentage movment of how far away the speaker is, so make it match levels properly when sitting up, and then lean back and you are way closer to the surround so its all you can hear. diploes seem to mask that effect a little more than normal speakers.





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  # 1747871 26-Mar-2017 08:24
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This isn't about my HT preferences, it is only a thread to see what the view is about the future of Atmos.

 

I could argue for page after page about various speaker types and dispersion characteristics.

 

None of this is new, I was experimenting with in ceiling surrounds speakers 14 years go (see AudioEnz).

 

So for me I get it.  Really, I do.

 

In 2003 I was enjoying a simulated helicopter going overhead and rain that appeared to come from the ceiling. I get it.

 

So finally Dolby introduce a ceiling surround system and the platform of playback has shifted again.

 

Here is what I wrote about dipoles  back in 2003:

 

"The objective is to retrieve *without alteration or colouration* the information that is on the soundtrack.

 

This analogy still works for me: An envelope is to a letter what the HT speaker system is to a soundtrack. It is merely a means of delivery.

 

If your HT system interferes with the signal as created by the soundtrack engineer, that is distortion."

 

 

 

Dolby is in no doubt about the issue:

 

 

 

“Dolby has found by using Dipoles at home in a discrete digital system gives you too much diffusion on what is a completely discrete signal. We have found that dipoles disperse the image such that it is utterly directionless, seemingly everywhere at once which is not desired because the mixer has control of the signal placement when he does the mix .” (Mix magazine on “Multichannel replay” as taken from the Dolby press conference at AES 2002)."

 

So come forward to 2017 and we now have object based surround that requires an neutral platform that allows precise FX placement within 'the bubble'. So you add dipoles that smear rather than steer detail in to this mix? Really?

 

Anyway..look I am interested in opinions on Atmos as viable surround format, not the technicalities because I think I knew where this is all headed.

 

So, are there more titles crossing genres coming out or are they primarily Hollywood films?  

 

 

 

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  # 1748025 26-Mar-2017 12:55
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Well Max.

 

You've come into this thread with a negative approach by trying to compare Atmos / DTS:X to 3D on TV's.

 

You've looked for issues in the approach everywhere.

 

You don't even appear to like new content that is coming to market.

 

So, like you, I'll quote myself in a vague attempt to achieve self puffery and elevate my opinion in the eyes of others...

 

"The thing is, if you're not particularly taken by new cinematic releases, then you've probably answered your own question." - Geekzone 2017.

 

 

 

Basically, you're never going to adopt Atmos and you're using this forum to validate your opinion.

 

This means the answer is simple, for your own theatre just stick to 5.1 and leave the thread to die off, like AudioEnz...




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  # 1748042 26-Mar-2017 13:17
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It's not negative at all.

 

It is however realistic.

 

It is seeking an update to the availability and spread of Atmos films across other genres that have little interest for me. No one here appears to have any experience with these films and that is what I want to hear.

 

If you backtrack and read as I did, the early beginnings of Atmos were 'difficult' but now appear to be left behind with growing content.

 

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/home-cinema/dolby-atmos-failing-or-just-slow-starting 

 

Today there will be enthusiasts for Atmos and I fully understand the excitement. I do question whether it will make its way into homes of the casual HT enthusiast.

 

And for the record, I didn't compare anything - I merely asked a question - one that has been used elsewhere.

 

So is it more than 3D - certainly looks like it? But will it make inroads across HT systems where lounges are transformed into Atmos capable rooms?

 

The answer appears to be an emphatic no - but it might be a subset of HT enthusiasts who have dedicated rooms.

 

That still sounds like Atmos has a future, even if it is niche.

 

I will likely install Atmos in the new room (measurements were done yesterday) but it will be a very low priority for my viewing, but obviously not yours.

 

The question still remains however; given the differing recommended set ups for 5.1 vs Atmos speaker arrays, is there a need to maximise the speaker platform for both?

 

That could be simply done by using separate speaker set-ups and a Speaker A/B switch on a dedicated external (rear surround) amplifier.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  # 1748329 26-Mar-2017 20:57
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7.1, 9.1 and 11.1 systems never took off amongst the average punters. I'm picking Atmos won't either. You heard it here first ;)




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  # 1748332 26-Mar-2017 21:03
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One reason you may be right is that reading today, it seems some Atmos titles are being held back for 4K and Uktra-HD.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  # 1748365 26-Mar-2017 22:06
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Id like to add to my above comment that my opinion is in no way based upon the actual merits or otherwise of Atmos, which I confess to hearing only at the Embassy for the Hobbit.

Rather, it's the lack (so far) of a sense that it's a "must have" piece of kit from the marketing department to Joe and Jane public.

 
 
 
 


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  # 1748382 26-Mar-2017 23:10
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Going forward i would agree with Dunnersfella...if you are not into the latest and greatest in Movies then Atmos/DTS-X will be of no interest for you. I mean...the movie companies are still trying to pique our interest with 4K Movies and Atmos/DTS-X Soundtracks. They arent doing a good job if you take a look at the titles available. We need some Disney Interest to make this viable ie Disney/Marvel/Lucasfilm products. As with most newer formats...a bit of a wait will enable pricing to come down to access the said formats. It basically becomes a no brainer. 4K/HDCP 2.2 support etc today is the norm. Think of it this way...you would play 5.1 knowing 7.1 was a small upgrade away. I currently have 3x generations of receiver in my home.....a Pioneer VSX-AX5i...a Pioneer VSX-LX70...and an Integra DTR-60.7. The AX5i will finally be getting a rest. Its still an amazing Receiver...but the LX70 and definitely the 60.7 have moved the goal posts a few football fields ahead. As good as the AX5i is....the LX70 and 60.7 is on another 2 levels. I would say...upgrade your existing receiver but hold off on the "newer" capabilities till you think is a good time to move on. You can still run say a current 11.2.4 receiver as a 5.1 receiver. With newer 4K Content and displays theres really no turning back. So...upgrade...and wait it out i would say. Moving to Lossless audio is a great start....im my opinion. Let the rest come on...when you require them.     


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  # 1748386 26-Mar-2017 23:28
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No 4k starwars release for rogue one so I wont be buying it. If that had atmos it would be no use to me at the moment since my HT amp is in the garage being a HDMI switch and stereo amp till I clear the lounge out.





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  # 1748434 27-Mar-2017 06:55
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ARIKIP:

 

Going forward i would agree with Dunnersfella...if you are not into the latest and greatest in Movies then Atmos/DTS-X will be of no interest for you. I mean...the movie companies are still trying to pique our interest with 4K Movies and Atmos/DTS-X Soundtracks. They arent doing a good job if you take a look at the titles available. We need some Disney Interest to make this viable ie Disney/Marvel/Lucasfilm products. As with most newer formats...a bit of a wait will enable pricing to come down to access the said formats. It basically becomes a no brainer. 4K/HDCP 2.2 support etc today is the norm. Think of it this way...you would play 5.1 knowing 7.1 was a small upgrade away. I currently have 3x generations of receiver in my home.....a Pioneer VSX-AX5i...a Pioneer VSX-LX70...and an Integra DTR-60.7. The AX5i will finally be getting a rest. Its still an amazing Receiver...but the LX70 and definitely the 60.7 have moved the goal posts a few football fields ahead. As good as the AX5i is....the LX70 and 60.7 is on another 2 levels. I would say...upgrade your existing receiver but hold off on the "newer" capabilities till you think is a good time to move on. You can still run say a current 11.2.4 receiver as a 5.1 receiver. With newer 4K Content and displays theres really no turning back. So...upgrade...and wait it out i would say. Moving to Lossless audio is a great start....im my opinion. Let the rest come on...when you require them.     

 

 

It is clear that everything audio/HT will always change/progress..(see the pic of my 1987 Kenwood Dolby Surround processor..!)

 

But there are substantial technical, installation and playback issues buried in Atmos.

 

One of which, is how do house renters get Atmos in the ceiling (please no mention of firing audio upwards..)..it leaves it to home owners and then you need WAF..

 

And quite aside from my film preferences, psychographic/demographic profile, the key point is does Atmos have the commercial legs? If people aren't buying discs and you can't get it streamed or over air here and you can't rent films, how do they get it cheaply and easily? 

 

There are really interesting applications of multi-mic soundfields, Tomlinson Holman (THX) was doing this in blind demonstrations in the early 90s as were others (Ambisonics). This isn't new, Atmos is merely a commercial proposition/application.

 

So is it 3D/Quadraphonic/SACD or is it sustainable?

 

As for blockbusters for me for example, I am way more interested in how Spotlight might sound than Transformers. Could an Atmos mix make an office more subtly engaging, what about a street at night or busy with traffic what about a kitchen with ambient sounds of cooking or the inside of a car driving etc etc

 

These scenes engage me more than yet another helicopter overhead.

 

What about Liverpool Chelsea - https://www.engadget.com/2017/01/31/watch-todays-chelsea-vs-liverpool-game-in-4k-and-dolby-atmos/

 

So Atmos is interesting, fascinating really, but if it's going to be limited to 4K I'm not interested (my HT system is projector based and has been for 25 years).

 

But Anfield Kop live in Atmos..hmmmm....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  # 1748940 27-Mar-2017 20:01
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Maxcat:

The question still remains however; given the differing recommended set ups for 5.1 vs Atmos speaker arrays, is there a need to maximise the speaker platform for both?


Upmixing solves this as I mentioned earlier.



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  # 1748953 27-Mar-2017 20:20
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No it doesn't.

 

What it does is distort the soundfield into another format the film was never created in.

 

I was asked earlier what I wanted from Atmos - my reply: accurate to the source.

 

Upmixing is simply adding distortion that listeners may like, it is though, not accurate soundtrack reproduction.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 




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  # 1749351 28-Mar-2017 12:51
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One way that Atmos might make it easier for casual installs is with two additions:

 

 

 

1) Active wireless speakers that clip to the ceiling like fire alarms (see pic example) - do they exist from any current speaker company?

 

2) Add-on Atmos decoders. These may never appear as the companies have too much to gain by the upgrade chain from 5.1/7.1 receivers to Atmos receivers.

 

 

 

 

 


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  # 1749605 28-Mar-2017 17:12
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Maxcat:

One way that Atmos might make it easier for casual installs is with two additions:


 


1) Active wireless speakers that clip to the ceiling like fire alarms (see pic example) - do they exist from any current speaker company?


2) Add-on Atmos decoders. These may never appear as the companies have too much to gain by the upgrade chain from 5.1/7.1 receivers to Atmos receivers.


 



 



Hi Max I am not entirely sure you know how Atmos or DTS X works I don't believe their could ever be an Add on Atmos decoder.

The source material has to have the Atmos track embedded in it then you need a Reciever to recognise it and be able to send the object based sound to the appropriate area. As Dunnersfella said it is not a channel system it is attempting to put a specific sound into specific place in relation to your ears.

I have a 7.1.2 based system and love it. Some movies have a more in your face approach others a more subtle it all depends what the Director/Sound Engineer want you to experience.

Just my 2 cents worth.




My gear 55" Samsung 4K SUHD LCD HDR , Denon AVR-4200W Reciever in 7.1.2 Surround , Denon 2 Channel Amp to power ceiling speakers , Combination of Polk Audio Fronts And Tannoy Surrounds plus 2 Cambridge Audio Ceiling Speakers Pioneer Downfiring Subwoofer , Oppo UDP-203 UHD Player , Roku Ultra , Apple TV 3



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  # 1749614 28-Mar-2017 17:24
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rokki:
Maxcat:

 

One way that Atmos might make it easier for casual installs is with two additions:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1) Active wireless speakers that clip to the ceiling like fire alarms (see pic example) - do they exist from any current speaker company?

 

 

 

2) Add-on Atmos decoders. These may never appear as the companies have too much to gain by the upgrade chain from 5.1/7.1 receivers to Atmos receivers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



Hi Max I am not entirely sure you know how Atmos or DTS X works I don't believe their could ever be an Add on Atmos decoder.

The source material has to have the Atmos track embedded in it then you need a Reciever to recognise it and be able to send the object based sound to the appropriate area. As Dunnersfella said it is not a channel system it is attempting to put a specific sound into specific place in relation to your ears.

I have a 7.1.2 based system and love it. Some movies have a more in your face approach others a more subtle it all depends what the Director/Sound Engineer want you to experience.

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

 

 

I have read the same Dolby info as everyone else. I have to say the object based branding is (as another reviewer put it..) somewhat 'nebulous' to put it mildly.

 

However, the key issue for me and many others is the success of the Atmos format. There are many barriers to it gaining traction, not the least of which is the issue of ease of install in existing systems.

 

I thought one way this might be possible is to add a decoder with a simple HDMI pass-through option routed through the add-on Atmos device and then to the main receiver processing. The add-on decoder would have wireless RF/Bluetooth to the ceiling speakers which are active.

 

In this way both the receiver and add-on work together to create the 'object based' soundfield - only this time all done in the digital domain.

 

In so doing it may provide a cheap add-on just as my Dolby Surround processor and the early Yamaha DSP units (1985) and Pro-Logic and DD/DTS units did in the 1990s.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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