Ultra High Definition: A guide to TVs.

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#2072544 13-Aug-2018 10:51

@dingbatt - you should also add a comment about HDR and that it needs HDMI 2.0a (note that the 'a' is important) for connections between an HDR TV and whatever source (blu-ray,, Xbox, etc.) is connected otherwise it may not work.

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Masterpiece

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#2072967 13-Aug-2018 20:56

I re-quote my quote of the quote of the quote regarding HDMI and data flow

Masterpiece:
xyeovillian:
I have a HDMI cable which has just stopped playing the right colours so I swapped it for another.

My Question is do you need more expensive ones or something like $5.00 ones from say the Warehouse?

To connect PS3,Panasonic DVD recorder,Apple TV and Intel Nuc through a Yamaha RX-840 finally to An LG smart TV.

I have always used the cheap ones just curios with anyone's experience.

I'll quote myself from another thread below that explains some of the reasoning behind requirements.
I'll add that it really comes down to the quality control of manufacture and quality of the components than the actual price.
For 4k+HDR signals and greater than 4~5m length I'd recommend active cables.
For relatively shorter lengths just a reasonably constructed cable is good.
I have been using Dynamix cables from Jaycar with no real dramas.

Also note cables can expire from use, contacts get dirty, moisture ingress, overuse breakdown. Gaming console cables can get overuse from being constantly plugged in and out and moved around. Smoking, cooking oils and tar can ruin contacts.

Most HDMI 1.4 devices are limited to 9~10.2Gbps and in some cases lower.

1080p24 @8bit 4:4:4 = 2.23Gbps

If you struggle with this, lower settings 1080i, 720p or even 576i to get a signal then step up one level at a time until it fails then drop back one setting. That then is the device/cable transport limit. Note: some DVD/BD players amp up the signal more than others at the risk of swamping the HDMI cable.

If you struggle to do this over any connection you are in trouble for anything related to 4k or HDMI 2.0a~2.1

2160@24 8bit 4:4:4 = 8.91Gbps

A lot of people should be able to do basic 4k as above with short/medium cables and transitional 4k devices.

2160@24 10bit 4:4:4 = 11.14Gbps
2160@24 12bit 4:4:4 = 13.36Gbps

This is where people will start having issues when they raise bit depth to 10bit/12bit, this will be the default future for 4k +HDR as 8bit is just not good enough.

2160@50/60 8bit 4:4:4 = 17.82Gbps

So you want 60fps, you drop to 8bit but probably overwhelm your systems.
8 bit is not the way to go.

You are better off setting this

2160@24 10bit 4:4:4 = 11.14Gbps
or
2160@50/60 10bit 4:2:0 = 11.14Gbps

I'd argue that the 24hz would be better on a modern display that ups the Hz.
this does depend on the source material and what it is as default.

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Dingbatt

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#2075876 19-Aug-2018 17:44

I have updated the opening post with some of your comments and amendments. It is still a work in progress, with the aim to be a simple guide at the beginning and people can delve more deeply into the thread itself for more info.

@jarledb Thanks for adding the edits for me.

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eracode

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#2080044 28-Aug-2018 02:21

LG announces Alexa support for Oz TVs but unfortunately not yet for NZ:

https://www.engadget.com/2018/08/24/google-assistant-lg-thinq-tv-more-countries/

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Dingbatt

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#2080551 29-Aug-2018 08:33

eracode:
LG announces Alexa support for Oz TVs but unfortunately not yet for NZ:

https://www.engadget.com/2018/08/24/google-assistant-lg-thinq-tv-more-countries/

I have been in contact with LG over the past couple of weeks about Home Assistant and Alexa in 2018 TVs. According to the latest communication I have had with them, it is coming to NZ via a firmware update scheduled for November this year.
It was demonstrated at CES in January and announced in a press release in May. From what I have been able to find out, it will work through the microphone on the magic remote and not be listening continuously.
It has been a very drawn out process trying to get any information out of LG.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

UHD

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#2080653 29-Aug-2018 09:45

For anyone considering a new TV please note that one of the best features of UHD technology: HDR is a complete mess right now. Almost no consumer panels can output 1,000 nits let alone 4,000 nits which means any HDR source has to be tonemapped.

Unfortunately, there is no standard for tonemapping algorithms and it seems each manufacturer has a different approach meaning the different sets often produce a wildly different picture given the same input.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lt6IflKAmWg

Dolby Vision should improve this situation slightly as is should at least standardise output between manufacturers but that only helps for content encoded with Dolby Vision which is a select few UHD Blu-ray discs and some Netflix content. Amazon video use HDR10+ and so will other UHD Blu-ray discs.

Horrible HDR tonemapping actually makes UHD look worse than regular Blu-ray discs in many cases and this problem will likely be around for a while so bear that in mind when you're waving around your $5,000 for a shiny new UHD TV set.

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#2080677 29-Aug-2018 10:21

Dingbatt:
eracode:
LG announces Alexa support for Oz TVs but unfortunately not yet for NZ:

https://www.engadget.com/2018/08/24/google-assistant-lg-thinq-tv-more-countries/

I have been in contact with LG over the past couple of weeks about Home Assistant and Alexa in 2018 TVs. According to the latest communication I have had with them, it is coming to NZ via a firmware update scheduled for November this year.
It was demonstrated at CES in January and announced in a press release in May. From what I have been able to find out, it will work through the microphone on the magic remote and not be listening continuously.
It has been a very drawn out process trying to get any information out of LG.

Thanks for that. I have the new Sonos Beam soundbar running off our LG C8. The Beam is Alexa-enabled and the Alexa non-TV stuff works well. (Maybe that should be ‘reasonably well’. On Saturday night I was interested to see what Alexa might know about NZ rugby union and Bledisloe Cup etc. Asked her several simple, clear, short questions and all she came up with was some info from Wikipedia on the Warriors. In the end she said something like ‘this is something I don’t know about but I can do some research and get back to you if I find something. Would you like me to do that?’. Still waiting.).

In connection with the TV, Beam/Alexa will act on simple instructions like TV on/off/volume up-down etc - but it seems you can’t get her to do something more specific like “Alexa, show Star Trek Discovery on Netflix” without the Alexa app on the TV itself. I’ll be keen to try it if/when it becomes available in NZ. If Oz now has it for LG, maybe we’re not far behind.

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eracode

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#2140882 7-Dec-2018 04:44

LG have released an update for WebOS for their TVs worldwide - v 4.10.15 arrived on our C8 last night. At this point LG don’t appear to have issued any Release Notes at all. However googling has revealed that the update fixes one specific issue - HDR luminance fluctuations.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TthtKfCOzmU

I also found this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/OLED/comments/a2k2d3/lg_oled_webos_41015_update/

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SpartanVXL

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#2140917 7-Dec-2018 09:14

Although this thread is a guide for TV's anybody aware of a decent 4k 60Hz 10/12bit HDR monitor? For 4:4:4 it has to be using Displayport, but is there one out in NZ?

Paul1977

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#2141243 7-Dec-2018 16:36

eracode:

LG have released an update for WebOS for their TVs worldwide - v 4.10.15 arrived on our C8 last night. At this point LG don’t appear to have issued any Release Notes at all. However googling has revealed that the update fixes one specific issue - HDR luminance fluctuations.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TthtKfCOzmU

I also found this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/OLED/comments/a2k2d3/lg_oled_webos_41015_update/

I'd noticed this on a couple of titles, it was quite prevalent in Dunkirk for example when switching to a daylight beach scene. Glad to hear it's been fixed, might fire up Dunkirk tonight and test it myself.

Dingbatt

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#2141295 7-Dec-2018 20:34

Luckily for me I took Vincent's advice on the video where he revealed the luminance problem. He said "if you haven't seen a problem with your set then stop watching now", so I did and was blissfully unaware of it. (Working under the maxim where once it was seen it couldn't be unseen.)
And now it's fixed.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

eracode

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#2141312 7-Dec-2018 21:44

Dingbatt: Luckily for me I took Vincent's advice on the video where he revealed the luminance problem. He said "if you haven't seen a problem with your set then stop watching now", so I did and was blissfully unaware of it. (Working under the maxim where once it was seen it couldn't be unseen.)
And now it's fixed.

I never noticed it and didn’t know about it - but TBH I may be an unsophisticated viewer.

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

Bung

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#2141385 8-Dec-2018 05:26

eracode:
Dingbatt: Luckily for me I took Vincent's advice on the video where he revealed the luminance problem. He said "if you haven't seen a problem with your set then stop watching now", so I did and was blissfully unaware of it. (Working under the maxim where once it was seen it couldn't be unseen.)
And now it's fixed.

I never noticed it and didn’t know about it - but TBH I may be an unsophisticated viewer.

HDR not being switched on would be one reason not to notice any problem 😀

eracode

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#2141387 8-Dec-2018 06:20

Bung:
eracode:
Dingbatt: Luckily for me I took Vincent's advice on the video where he revealed the luminance problem. He said "if you haven't seen a problem with your set then stop watching now", so I did and was blissfully unaware of it. (Working under the maxim where once it was seen it couldn't be unseen.)
And now it's fixed.

I never noticed it and didn’t know about it - but TBH I may be an unsophisticated viewer.

HDR not being switched on would be one reason not to notice any problem 😀

On the LG C8, HDR can’t be switched on and off - if the source is supplying HDR/Dolby Vision, the TV just displays it. Screen settings can be adjusted once it’s running.

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

Dingbatt

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#2149276 22-Dec-2018 12:37

Just finished setting up my 2018 Panasonic Smart TV to be controlled by Amazon Alexa and Google Assistant. Prompted by adverts saying it was available. It was relatively painless to set up but did require a Panasonic tv account to be setup online. It seems like each set has a unique serial and password as well.
Of little practical use to me as I use Harmony to control everything and using the Panasonic skill on either Alexa or GA will just put it out of synch. But nice to know it works.

Come on LG, lift your game. You were supposed to have similar functionality by now as well.

(I will include Panasonic functionality in OP in due course)

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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