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25 posts

Geek


Topic # 245493 7-Feb-2019 00:24
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Looking for a new amp to power a big box 5.1 B&W setup .. 683s, PV1, 602S3s and a LCR60S3.

 

Any suggestions what I should look for? Have all the stats from the manuals but not sure what to do with them to find a matching amp. 

 

Cheers


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167 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 2174228 7-Feb-2019 05:21
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For the last 10-12 years I have run a B&W 5.1 set up in conjunction with a high end (RXV-3800 was high end when it came out) Yamaha receiver and have never been disappointed. The warmth of the Yamaha dovetails well with the B&W's yet it never becomes fuzzy or lacking in detail.

 

Cheers,




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Geek


  Reply # 2174253 7-Feb-2019 08:08
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Thanks. Did you do any calculations, or just 'aim high and hope it goes far enough'?
Thanks, S

 
 
 
 


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 2174287 7-Feb-2019 10:05
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If your in Christchurch or Wellington, the Listening Post would be a good place to consider.

 

https://www.listeningpost.co.nz/Products/Amplifiers/Home-Theatre-Receivers/Home-Theatre-Receivers-__I.27756__C.27277

 

Then something from Yamaha, all depends on how much you want to spend.


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  Reply # 2174515 7-Feb-2019 17:42
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If they're generation 1 683's, then you'll want a bigger amp than the specs from B&W may indicate...

 

They list them as being 8ohm nominal, but somewhere in 'deep bass territory' they dip well below 4ohms.

 

If you have a decent sized receiver + ample space for the amp to keep cool (with good airflow) then you'll be fine. On the little amps, well, not so much.

 

If you're talking Yamaha as suggested above, look for something with '4 digits' as the power supply is noticeably larger and they're happy with low impedance speakers. RX-V1085/RX-A1080 and bigger.

 

 

 

Remember, most speaker damage occurs when a speaker is under-powered, not over-driven!


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  Reply # 2174894 8-Feb-2019 10:12
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Dont get suckered into the rated power/watts BS

 

For a normal size room and normal listening levels, 10W per channel is all you need . When you actually measure actual power to the speakers its a big surprise
Higher power gives a more headroom admittedly .
Yep, 10W is actually plenty, at normal levels (its pretty loud unless your speakers are woefully inefficient)
A live band in your lounge could play at ear hurting levels with 20W amps (Ive done that).

 

If your lounge is the size of a bingo hall or you want to rattle cupboards and have ear bleeding volume, then you dont need quality , as at high vol we cant hear quality
Human ears just arnt that good . Hearing is logarithmic . Double the perceived volume requires approx 10x the power (will be more as speaker get less efficient when pushed to the max)

 

Add to that the marketing BS in amps rated power . The may claim 100W per channel, but may be only 20W RMS all channels driven
Just aim for around 50W or so. Thats easily more than enough.

 

Speaker damage can occur when amps are driven into clipping  , and just as easily damaged when driven at too high a power without clipping.
Speaker damage can also just as easily occur when the very thin wires simply break . Its not allways abuse that blows speakers


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  Reply # 2174898 8-Feb-2019 10:27
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Interestingly B&W quote the speakers distortion , most manufactures wont

 

for the 603
Harmonic distortion
2nd and 3rd harmonics (90dB, 1m)
<1% 90Hz - 22kHz
<0.5% 120Hz - 20kH

 

It make a mockery of some AMPs ultra low distortion marketing snake oil
:-)

 

 


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  Reply # 2175002 8-Feb-2019 12:22
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Double loudness (every 3dB) is not 10x power but 2x power. Loudness decrease exponentially with distance. Most speakers produce circa 90-99 dB at 1m using only 1W.




Swype on iOS is detrimental to accurate typing. Apologies in advance.


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  Reply # 2175324 8-Feb-2019 23:00
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Its 10 watts average (or RMS if you insist on misusing that mathematical expression) music typically has a 10dB average to peak ratio so that is 100w peak required. A typical amp will be rated average power output at half the peak since its done with sinewaves, so you need an amp claiming over 50 watts average to be able to sustain the 100watt peak that your music content contains.

 

 





Richard rich.ms

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  Reply # 2175353 9-Feb-2019 07:27
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UKNZ: Thanks. Did you do any calculations, or just 'aim high and hope it goes far enough'?
Thanks, S

 

No calculations. I have had many Yamaha amps over the years and the RXV 3800 had enough headroom that it didn't really matter what the speaker ratings were. My sitting room is approx 8m by 4m and the volume control never gets beyond about a third.


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  Reply # 2175797 10-Feb-2019 11:24
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1101:

 


Human ears just arnt that good . Hearing is logarithmic . Double the perceived volume requires approx 10x the power (will be more as speaker get less efficient when pushed to the max)

 

Add to that the marketing BS in amps rated power . The may claim 100W per channel, but may be only 20W RMS all channels driven
Just aim for around 50W or so. Thats easily more than enough.

 

Speaker damage can occur when amps are driven into clipping  , and just as easily damaged when driven at too high a power without clipping.
Speaker damage can also just as easily occur when the very thin wires simply break . Its not allways abuse that blows speakers

 

 

 

 

If you want a perceivable change in volume, you need to double your power... it's not 10x as you have stated.

 

I'm curious 1101, what 5 channel AVR do you personally recommend for the B&W setup the OP listed?

 

 




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Geek


  Reply # 2175814 10-Feb-2019 12:17
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I'm curious too.

Have previously been advised (by b+w dealers in the UK) that marantz is a really great match especially as I'm focussed mostly on audio of a wide variety of genres) and its been great but it seems to be getting out of its depth as my system has grown, plus it runs crazy hot.. As hot as a heater which is not what you want in the summer!

Ive had many brands before but I'm very inclined to Yamaha actually, nothing but good experiences with them. So ive bought a second hand avantege and will see how that goes.. May or may not upgrade again based on how that performs. So still interested in any specific model advice.

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Master Geek
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  Reply # 2175819 10-Feb-2019 12:31
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In the next year I am planning to upgrade my TV to an LG OLED. My RXV3800 won't cut it from a video perspective so plan on an RX-V308x series Yamaha Rx.

 

Speakers will remain the same with my B&W 6 series. Guess I like Yamaha :) and my B&W speakers


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Master Geek
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  Reply # 2175951 10-Feb-2019 14:38
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I have a 6m x 6m room and have a 5.1 B&W set up with S2 602 601 and ccr6 and have a marantz sr5007 I don’t have to push the amp much at all and we enjoy music as much as movies through the setup. I’m playing sacd as much as CD and I love it. Can well and truly recommend the marantz with B&W.

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