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278 posts

Ultimate Geek
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Topic # 24783 2-Aug-2008 16:45
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So had Sky come out to install, since I have changed the dish to a 90CM and the LNB is a dual output universal he couldnt get a signal lock.
I had multiroom functioning fine on this setup.  Advised the Sky guy to change the LNB settings on the HDi box to
L.O. - 9750
HIGH - 10600
LNB power - ON
22kHz Command - Local Osc

If I dont set the 22KHz to local I cant edit the LO and High freq.
I still cant get a lock with this, the normal Sky box gets a lock with 71signal strength and 80-100% quality..
 
Sky guy left and advised me to sort out the LNB. 
So I took the HDi box upstairs and connected it,  with the above settings it did the download correctly and I called Sky to get the card activated, now the box functions fine upstairs although on a 32" CRT via coposite :)

My Dish setup is, 90cm with Dual output univ LNB.  1 output feeds Freeview box, the other output feeds multiroom Sky via a splitter.  All this functions fine with the 2 x Pace DS230 and DSR2000 Sky boxes, and the Kaon Freeview STB. 

Now removing the Sky DSR2000 out of the equation, and installing the HDi box, I am unable to get a signal lock downstairs where the 50" HDMI TV is..

Cyril advice please?




My opinions and ideas expressed in posts are solely my own and do not reflect the views of my employer in any way..


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91 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 153637 2-Aug-2008 17:43
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Hi JaBZ
You may have already tried this but thought I would mention it.
Why the sky installer set up my original multi room using two Mysky units he stated that the unit in the living area had to be connected and at least on standby for the other unit to operate. Almost if on of the units was set to be a master and the other a slave. Just tested it and he was correct.  Maybe if you swap the cables at the splitter the MySky HDi will get a signal lock down stairs. Or maybe it is setting in the Mysky unit itself.

91 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 153639 2-Aug-2008 17:46
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Why the sky installer set up my original multi room

Should have read "When the sky installer set up my original multi room "

 
 
 
 




278 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 153643 2-Aug-2008 18:19
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Yep It the LNB power which the multiroom is setup as 1 box has the LNB power ON the other has it set to OFF.  The splitter I have has power pass on all ports.

Took the HDi box back upstairs, and now cant get a lock upstairs either.. grrr...
Normal Pace DS230 gets lock upstairs at 80% signal, and 100% quality.  Downstairs it gets 61-71 % signal, 80-100% quality.




My opinions and ideas expressed in posts are solely my own and do not reflect the views of my employer in any way..




278 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 1


  Reply # 153657 2-Aug-2008 19:29
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So finally got a signal lock downstairs on the HDi. Upstairs decoder has LNB power on.  HDi box LNB Power off

But signal levels are
Signal Tuner 1 -  41dBuV, no bars
Quality - 1.00E -5 BER, 6 Bars quality

Signal Tuner 2  - 52dBuv, 1 red bar
Quality - 1.00E -5 BER, 6 Bars quality

I can record 1 channel, but when switching to an HD channel I get significant breakup.


Disconnected DS230 upstairs, brought it downstairs..
connected it up

83% Signal
Quality 100% BER 0.0E-07 to 79% 7.9E-06

So now Ill take the HDi box upstairs and check the signal figures.

EDIT:
Upstairs, the HDi gets

Signal Tuner 1 -  41dBuV, no bars
Quality - 1.00E -5 BER, 6 Bars quality

Signal Tuner 2  - 41dBuv, no bars
Quality - 1.00E -5 BER, 6 Bars quality

So somethings wrong, with the dish alignmen?.   Doesn't explain why the normal Pace DS260 has no problems. Maybe it can cope with low signal better or it's method of showing signal levels is off.
The other odd thing is the HDi cannot lock onto a signal if it's own LNB power is set to ON and its on the single output.  If its on one of the splitter outputs it cannot lock onto a signal until another box (DS230) is connected to the 2nd output regardless of the HDi boxes LNB power settings.




My opinions and ideas expressed in posts are solely my own and do not reflect the views of my employer in any way..


112 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 153710 2-Aug-2008 22:53
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JaBZ: So finally got a signal lock downstairs on the HDi. Upstairs decoder has LNB power on.  HDi box LNB Power off

But signal levels are ...



I've noticed the same thing. Our HDi box has a signal strength about 11dBuV below the Pace box in the other room. I also tested the HDi at a friends place yesterday to confirm his TV was HDCP capable prior to his own install and we noticed the weaker signal there compared with his MySky 1 as well. Maybe the internal multi-tuner splitter takes some signal strength away?

Also, our installation here is a Sky installed splitter in the roof to two single connectors and the HDi gets a signal of 69. At friends place he has a second splitter running to freeview as well and the HDi signal was about 58 which was one yellow bar I think.



278 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 153714 2-Aug-2008 23:11
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I'll take your 69dBuv please :P

Im wondering what I got to do to fix it, I got a sat finder, so will check dish alignment tomorrow.  Wonder if the LNB has crapped out..




My opinions and ideas expressed in posts are solely my own and do not reflect the views of my employer in any way..


800 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 153734 3-Aug-2008 07:29
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JaBZ: I'll take your 69dBuv please :P

Im wondering what I got to do to fix it, I got a sat finder, so will check dish alignment tomorrow.  Wonder if the LNB has crapped out..


I had something similar going on. The techy went to the dish and cleaned the LNB/Dish and it made a huge difference. Unsure why, he was just has suprised has I was.





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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 153739 3-Aug-2008 09:11
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Hi, not too sure what the issue is, and have not read through all the other latter posts, too much noise in the posts. Anyway what kind of splitter do you have I assume 4way. Might I suggest that you have just one STB drive the LNB. This STB will need to be on the DC pass port of the splitter, set it to power on, 10600 and 22kHz.

The above setup will force the LNB to 10600, now for all the other Sky boxs set them to 22kHz function NONE, power off (could be on if you want), and manually set the  LO to 10600. They dont need to know anything about the dual osc function of the LNB just set them to get the right IF calculation.

The HD channels are on a DVB-S2 so power profile may be different, hence different threshold. It sounds to me like the HDi might be a little deaf, possibly due to the internal multiswitch, so a 4way splitter might be two much loss in your setup, an amp may be needed or your LNB is low in output, you may also find one output of the LNB is stronger than the other, try swapping. Other options are to use a 3way splitter rather than 4way, one port of a 3way has higher level, although that does depend on the design, some are level unbalenced, others are 4ways with the last output internally terminated. If you have a 3way splitter this may explain why one port location works and the other not, so maybe change the splitter outputs. But that all said sounds like your signal is all a bit low for the HDi.

Most LNBs put out around 75-80dBuV. A 4way split is 11dB, and the multiswitch 2-3dB if not a powered one. If we assume 20m of cable on each run thats 7dB, so that gives us around 55dBuV which is around 10dB above the threshold of most tuners.

Cyril



278 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 153754 3-Aug-2008 10:44
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Thanks Cyril, will try that out.

I have only a 2 way splitter (power pass on both ports) coming off 1 of the dual outputs on the LNB, the 2nd ouput on the LNB is feeding a Freeview box.




My opinions and ideas expressed in posts are solely my own and do not reflect the views of my employer in any way..


6041 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 153758 3-Aug-2008 10:59
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Hi, ok, I thought i read 2xDS320 and 1x DSR2000 (replaced by Hdi) so thats three boxs on one feed, so maybe your LNB is low in output. Pity the tech did not do some investigation with his feild strength meter and check the levels??



Cyril

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 153761 3-Aug-2008 11:12
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Just thinking, the setting of the 22kHz in the HDi is most likely going to confuse the multi switch in the HDi, therefore reinforcing my view, use the standard STB to used 22kHz for LO control, as usual, tell the HDi NONE for the 22kHz use and LO of 10600, that way the multswitch will not get confusing 22kHz tone.

Cyril

583 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 153763 3-Aug-2008 11:26
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I have had trouble in the past with Universal lnb's and multiswitches,the 22khz tone causing confusuion as Cyril says.
If all else fails I would try a single lo o/p lnb(or dual in your case) 



278 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 153772 3-Aug-2008 12:01
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Ok sorted, thanks Cyril.
I made the Pace DS230 controls the LNB, power is on, local osc 22khz is LO low 10600, and high 10600
Changed the HDi to no 22KHz, and 10600, LNB power is off. 

The Sky Hdi now gets
Signal Tuner 1 -  69dBuV, 4 bars
Quality - 1.00E -5 BER, 6 Bars quality

Signal Tuner 2  - 69dBuv, 4 bars
Quality - 1.00E -5 BER, 6 Bars quality

Odd thing is if I reservse this setup, i.e. make the HDi the main box, no go.  The HDi box software doesn't let you set the LO low to 10600.
If I have the HDi box on the dedicated LNB output, with LNB power on, it doesnt get a lock.  So i think the HDi box cannot control the Univ LNB I have for some odd reason. (wasted most of my time making the HDi box the main yesterday)

Now to go watch some HD :)
I'll wait till Sky have the new LNB's, that will be another story when they refuse to put it on due to me changing the dish.  I also dont want their dual core cable, I already have 3 x Quad RG6 cabled in.




My opinions and ideas expressed in posts are solely my own and do not reflect the views of my employer in any way..


6041 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 153776 3-Aug-2008 12:20
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Hi, glad its sorted, from the desription its definitely got an issue with upsetting the multiswitch with the 22kHz, dont forget that the multiswitch has 4inputs, two inputs are selected by each tuner when no tone is used and HorV, the other two inputs are selected by tone=on and HorV, so when you have it setup with the 22kHz control if you put the LNB fed into one of the other inputs it will come to life, try the 3 or 4 input.

Cyril



278 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 153807 3-Aug-2008 14:38
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  Pity the tech did not do some investigation with his feild strength meter and check the levels??
Cyril


Soon as I said univ LNB all hands were off.  I paid 599 for a tech to come out drop off a box, and explain to me if I scratch the front panel it costs £50, yes £!!
And then he says you canno't change any of the LNB settings, it is all written on the chip!
I rang Sky to activate the card and get the installer code.




My opinions and ideas expressed in posts are solely my own and do not reflect the views of my employer in any way..


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