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3 posts

Wannabe Geek


# 261840 17-Dec-2019 16:22
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Hello,

 

 

 

On France forums, nobody was able to help me, that’s why I’m trying to find some help here. Even the "professionnals" were not able to give a definitive answer! And I work on this from months… :)

 

 

 

So, I’ll open soon in Cannes a fitness room.

 

 

 

From the HDMI output of my PC (GeForce RTX 2060 WINDFORCE graphic card), I must send the music videos to four 75’’ 4K TVs:

 

- two TVs located 15 meters (50 feet) away from the PC.

 

- two TVs located 30 meters (100 feet) away from the PC.

 

 

 

On the TVs, I only play music videos. On my playlist, I have hundred of music videos in mp4 format (3 to 4 minutes each): some in 4K and stereo, some in bad VHS quality and mono. The 4 TVs will always play the same videos at same moment. But without sound, only images. For musics, I’ll install many passive speakers, but I still didn’t choose the sound solution.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1) SEPARATE SOUND AND IMAGE FROM THE PC:

 

 

 

If I understand, I must connect a HDMI cable from my PC HDMI output to the HDMI input of a sound and image extractor. It seems that this extactor must support HDMI 2.0b standard 4K 60HZ 18Gbps signal with 4:4:4 colours and HDCP 2.2 (copy protection). From this extractor, a HDMI output will go to an image splitter or matrix, and an output will go to an amplifier. As I still don’t know which amplifier I’ll use, I still don’t know what kind of sound output this sound extractor must have. I have to find a solution which makes me able to manage the audio signal. For example, if the extractor extracts the audio in stereo signal, if I connect it to the amplifier, what happens? If the extractor extracts in mono, it’s a disaster. So, here are the sound extractor peoples suggested:

 

 

 

Sound: toslink/optical output or 3.5mm analogue output (120 euro):

 

https://www.keene.co.uk/marmitek-hdmi-connect-ae24-4k60-audio-extractor-with-arc.html

 

 

 

Sound: analogue RCA output L+R or digital coax output (120 euro):

 

https://www.keene.co.uk/puretools-hdmi-audio-de-embedder-4k-60hz-4-4-4.html

 

 

 

Sound: ???output??? (72 euro):

 

https://www.keene.co.uk/marmitek-hdmi-4k-audio-extractor-with-arc.html

 

 

 

Sound: ???output??? (67 euro):

 

https://www.lindy.fr/Extracteur-Audio-HDMI-2-0.htm?websale8=ld0101.ld030103&pi=38171&ci=20

 

 

 

Sound: ???output??? (35 euro):

 

https://www.amazon.com/OREI-HDA-912-Audio-Converter-Extractor/dp/B07BHYXVTY/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2a) SPLIT AND SEND IMAGE TO THE 4 TVs IN CAT6:

 

 

 

Some people told that I had to choose a RJ45 solution. With this solution, some told that I need a splitter, some told that a matrix was necessary. Here are the solutions suggested:

 

 

 

https://www.keene.co.uk/hdanywhere-xtnd-4k-1x4-1-splitter.html   (720 euro)

 

+ 2 x RJ45 CAT6 cables (15 meters)

 

+ 2 x RJ45 CAT6 cables (30 meters)

 

 

 

https://www.altimium.com/mat-hdmp44-4k-matrice-hdmi-hdbaset-4x4.html (3420 euros)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2b) SPLIT AND SEND IMAGE TO THE 4 TVs IN HDMI:

 

 

 

Some people told that HDMI optical cables were the best solution.

 

 

 

They suggested these splitters:

 

 

 

https://www.amazon.com/OREI-UltraHD-HDMI-Splitter-Port/dp/B07HR1WD4S/ (35 euro)

 

 

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PWYLWLN (45 euro)

 

 

 

http://www.electronicgrup.com/en/products/splitter---switch/hdmi/hdmi-1%C3%974-splitter-with-edid-control-support-4ka60hz.aspx (55 euro) with EDID

 

 

 

http://www.electronicgrup.com/en/products/splitter---switch/hdmi/hdmi-2-0-splitter1x4-3d-4ka60hz.aspx (66 euro)

 

 

 

https://www.conferenceroomav.com/p/wyrestorm-sp-0104-h2   (150 euro)

 

 

 

With these splitters, these optic HDMI cables are available:

 

 

 

For 15 meters:

 

https://www.lbm-distribution.com/fr/cables-optiques-actifs-hdmi-20-soudes/423-uht-15xb.html (280 meters)

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B078KB993Z/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1&tag=av0c-21 (127 euro)

 

https://www.lindy.co.uk/cables-adapters-c1/audio-video-c107/15m-active-hdmi-2-0-18g-cable-p674

 

(105 euro)

 

http://www.electronicgrup.com/en/products/audio-video-cables/hdmi-optical-fiber/optical-fiber-hdmi-4ka60hz-with-amplifier-15m.aspx 15m (70 euro)

 

 

 

 

 

For 30 meters:

 

https://www.lbm-distribution.com/fr/cables-optiques-actifs-hdmi-20-soudes/425-uht-30xb.html (350 euro)

 

https://www.amazon.com/-/es/dp/B07N7MX73D/ref=twister_B07PCM9WSS?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1   (100 euro)

 

http://www.electronicgrup.com/en/products/audio-video-cables/hdmi-optical-fiber/optical-fiber-hdmi-4ka60hz-with-amplifier-30m.aspx (90 euro)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

SPLITTER ALL-IN-ONE SEPARATING SOUND AND SPLITTING THE IMAGE:

 

 

 

If the optic HDMI is the best solution, some people told me that this machine does all: separating sound and image (so, the extractor A1 is no longer necessary) and splitting the image:

 

 

 

https://www.ortonsaudiovisual.com/blustream-sp14ab-4-way-hdmi-4k-splitter-with-audio-breakout.html (270 euro)

 

 

 

It seems that if the CAT6 solution is the best one, it seems that this device also separate the sound and the image:

 

https://www.avacab-online.com/Blustream-HSP14CS-Distributor-emitter-HDBaseT-CSC-70m/en (920 euro)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some also told that the devices I choose have to manage EDID information and that cables require 1-AMP. That’s why some told me to use this matrix :

 

https://www.markertek.com/product/zig-hxl-44/zigen-hxl-44-hdmi-2-0-4x4-matrix-4-in-4-out-4k-18g-ip-diagnostics-4-coaxial-audio-out (1100 euro)

 

With 4 recepters:

 

https://www.markertek.com/product/zig-poc-70/zigen-zig-poc-70-4k60hz-18g-hdbaset-hdmi-extender-set-12-v-poc-with-bi-directional-ir-rs232-supports-hdr-10 (450 euro)

 

 

 

Also, I don’t know what to do so there is no delay between the sound and the image. Can the audio extractor I choose and/or the splitter I choose insure that they are no delays between the sound and the image? Or is it the job of the sound amplifier? Also, might I use only 30 meters cables instead of two 15 meters cables and two 30 meters cables, so we are totally sure that the 4 TVs are managed exactly in the same manner? One thing is sure: the sound amplifier will have to manage the delay between the two TVs located 30 meters away and the two TVs located 15 meters away.

 

 

 

Last thing: the videos of my playlist are all very different. The whole system must manage automatically the downscaling, upscaling, etc. If I have small 360p videos, for example, I want that they are in fullscreen on the TVs.

 

 

 

 

 

Someone told that I have to AVOID that:

 

- a fiber cable that requires 1-Amp current with a HDMI splitter only outputs 300-ma.

 

- a splitter not managing EDID globally and only addressing EDID on output 1.

 

- extracting audio of the HDMI with an external extractor that adds additional delay of the video.

 

 

 

Some help please?

 

 

 

Thank you so much :)

 

 

 

Laura


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921 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  # 2377244 17-Dec-2019 18:45
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Why do you need to double up on hardware to extract the audio ,HDMI Matrixes are available with digital audio out or ARC( although I’d give ARC a wide berth)

3676 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2377274 17-Dec-2019 20:30
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HDMI can take 18Gbps (the maximum bandwidth available to the 4K UHD format)

 

To do this over any decent length you'll need a fibre based HDMI cable.

 

 

 

HDBaseT (HDMI signal over Cat6) is limited to just over 10Gb due to the bandwidth of the Cat6 cable itself.

 

There are some HDBaseT Receiver/Transmitter kits on the market that will use 'conversion' to drop the quality at the Transmitter (source) end, then build it back up at the Receiver (display) end. The image is very close to the full result, with only a minor drop in quality.

 

 

 

 

 

The benefits and negatives of both formats.

 

HDMI

 

1: HDMI cable = no extra boxes compared to HDBaseT.

 

2: Plug and play!

 

 

 

The downsides.

 

The cable is what the cable is - it's easy to damage the head of the cable.

 

Pulling HDMI cable through walls can be far harder to achieve than a Cat6 cable.

 

 

 

 

 

HDBaseT

 

1: It can take many different things over the cable...

 

USB, optical audio return, RS232, IR, ethernet (that's right, some HDBaseT units have 3 x 10/100 ethernet ports in the receiver end).

 

In other words, if you want to turn off a TV from 30 meters away, you can simply turn it off in the room where the PC is via IR or over a control system.

 

2: The data is sent in packets, not bitstreamed like HDMI - this means it can be error checked etc.

 

3: The actual Cat6 cable is very cheap and often already in place.

 

4: Cat6 is easy to run.

 

 

 

The downsides

 

1: Extra physical space required for the units and power supplies.

 

2: More electronics = more things that could potentially go wrong.

 

3: Not capable of true 18Gbps.

 

 

 

 

 

Re: audio.

 

1: Run the HDMI out of your laptop into a 4 in / 1 out HDMI splitter from a reputable brand.

 

Make sure the splitter has audio outputs that you know to be of good quality and the ability to adjust lip sync.

 

Run those into applicable amplification / speakers (remember lots of speakers is better than a few large ones to avoid 'hot spotting').

 

Don't go for a 'wireless multiroom' system. They're for houses and struggle in commercial spaces.


 
 
 
 


778 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  # 2377334 17-Dec-2019 20:59
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Hi, you are on the wrong track wanting to run cables.

Find s local av integrator that sells crestron or extron gear.

They will most likely use cat6a runs to the tvs and use digital media tx and rx kits.

The benefit of this is control over ip or rs232, flyleads can be replaced easily, and the right resolution can be set on the transmit.

Will cost you a bit to set up but will be worth it.




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3 posts

Wannabe Geek


  # 2377781 18-Dec-2019 13:46
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Thanks, especially Dunnersfella. I understand the con and downsides, but what do you suggest for my solution? HDMI? :)


3676 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2377968 18-Dec-2019 20:04
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The decision is yours to make.

 

But if you've paying someone to run the cables, I'd definitely talk to them first.

 

If you're doing it yourself... run HDMI cables AND at least one extra Cat6 to every TV.




3 posts

Wannabe Geek


  # 2378407 19-Dec-2019 12:00
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But why HDMI and Cat6? I did my post especially because I don't know what to do: a splitter with 4 optic fibers HDMI to the TVs, or a splitter with 4 Cat6 cables to 4 receptors at TVs.... ;)


511 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 2383591 1-Jan-2020 10:08
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For music videos or similar in a gym at those distances there's no need to run fiber. I'd stick with Cat 6's. If they're all the same feed to each TV you could use something similar to this:

 

https://cdlnz.com/LKV714PRO

 

(up to 40m)

 

If you want different things viewed you can get models with 2 outputs or 3 outputs or 1-1 as well. Have used this gear for similar installations with no problems since it's been available - no need to spend thousands for music videos to TVs.


 
 
 
 


1406 posts

Uber Geek


  # 2383624 1-Jan-2020 12:34
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Hi,

 

Bonne Année,

 

Not my field, but I am looking for a small ATEM so have beed reading up on this.

 

I am assuming one has appropriate licensing for playing video/audio content.

 

I might suggest talking to someone such as Blackmagic design on what kind of setup you really need.  For example they have a device called UltraStudio 4k or one of their DeckLink cards which may handle what you need on the output side of things, or at least give some ideas.

 

it maybe likely that instead of using HDMI one may need to convert to BNC and potentially then again to fibre so appropriate converters may be required.

 

The bit I am not sure about would be that your content is likely licensed content due to its resolution, so one will require HDCP repeaters/passthrough.  This is my I suggest calling someone blackmagic design as they will tell you what types of devices are required (they have resellers in france).  One could then look at other vendors for comparison.

 

4K@60Hz I think would require hardware capable of 12G SDI (serial digital interface). 

 

it maybe worth while drawing out a component diagram on a bit of paper as well, so one gets a good idea for the real requirements. For example whether one needs to output 4 streams at the transmitting end or delay it until closer to the receiving ends.

 

Also, one of the standards that might be worthwhile taking a look at is TICO (TIny COdec) which I think is capable of doing 4k over 3G-SDI.





Software Engineer

 


1982 posts

Uber Geek

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  # 2383727 1-Jan-2020 20:25
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Can’t you just buy another computer and bring it closer to the two distant TV’s? Then you can have 2 tvs per pc and less complex cabling and management issues. If it’s just for music videos and content hosted locally on a computer.... seems a lot of hassle for the ‘convenience’ of one pc rather than two

 

 

 

 





________

 

Antonios K

 

Click to see full size


607 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 2383737 1-Jan-2020 21:05
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Another option

 

Use a HDMI to DVB-T converter to convert the signal to a digital dvb-t signal can you can use with the built in TV Tuner, This will let you run RG6 to each tv and add more in the future

 

 

 

This method will create a slight audio delay so a cheap method is to buy a DVB-T receiver box to extract the audio out of the signal and process it into your audio amplifier system back in sync

 

 

 

 

 

 


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