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  #2426701 25-Feb-2020 06:16
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How were the relative volumes for each channel reached? As Shinychrome notes, they will normally be the same across each pairing of the same speaker, but yours show significant variation within the same pair (especially those side rears).

 

Did you re-do the YPAO using a tripod like suggested? Or is there something unusual about their placement, eg non-symmetrical location?




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  #2426725 25-Feb-2020 09:00
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I don't have a tripod, but surely if you want it at head height I can just sit the Mic on my head in my seating position if what we want is height AND distance?

 

I haven't rerun the YPAO as it's clearly not getting measurements wildly different from what it should be.I'll try running it tonight, but apparently it's a characteristic of the YPAO system that it always resets speakers to Large.


 
 
 
 


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  #2426738 25-Feb-2020 09:24
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I wouldn’t expect the most accurate measurements if you’re going to sit with the microphone on your head! Best to be away from the area when measuring, let alone be holding the mic in any way - an alternative to a tripod (but not so good) is to find a stool that can sit on the couch so the mic is located at head height. Or a homemade tripod made of three sticks... the options are many...

Back to the unusual readings in your photos - what is the reason for the settings for the pairs of some speakers being so far out? The difference between the two side rears in particular is significant - I can see why the YPAO has set the difference in volume settings if it really does think they’re that different in distance from the viewing position.

The easy way to work out these manually is to determine the best seat in the house - this should be equidistant between each pair of speakers, and directly in front of the centre speaker and the appropriate distance for viewing/listening. Measure the distance to each speaker from this one seat - it should be, if speakers have been located correctly, that both speakers in each pair are an equal distance from that position. The figures in the amp should reflect those. What is currently showing looks like a reading or readings taken from somewhere totally off-centre.

It’s not that this is likely to solve your sub setup problem specifically, but it does highlight there are a number of issues with the setup, all of which need be addressed if you want to get the best out of your system. These problems with other parts of of the audio setup do point towards it being likely that your sub problem is a setup issue as opposed to there being an issue with the sub itself.

One option to consider - could it be worth paying for an AV expert to help you set up the amp and sub? Could save a decent amount of time and guarantee the best possible results.

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  #2426740 25-Feb-2020 09:30
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a skeleton chair and some sticky tape works.





Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


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  #2426743 25-Feb-2020 09:38
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jonathan18:

One option to consider - could it be worth paying for an AV expert to help you set up the amp and sub? Could save a decent amount of time and guarantee the best possible results.

 

I feel like this is a massively understated point; $100-$200 for a professional to get the best of a system you have sunk thousands into is a no-brainer, and save you hours of fumbling in the dark yourself.

 

The only reason I don't is I actually enjoy the endless tinkering haha.




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  #2426744 25-Feb-2020 09:38
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I can use a stool or something else that's fine.

 

 

 

Part of the issue is, my primary seating postion now is a Lazy Boy which is about 1.4m from the Subwoofer to the left of the room. That's "my" seat. I have a couch where my wife and kids mostly sit.

 

Do I take the measurements from the Lazy Boy or from the "ideal" center of the couch? The other factor is that the couch is against the back wall, and the rear surrounds are there on the wall as well. The down-firing Atmos speakers (polk 8") are in the ceiling in front of the couch.

 

I am not sure why the speakers are showing different outputs, I assumed this was set with the YPAO? Is it not? If not set by YPAO, then I can reset them to whatever they should be, easily enough.

 

I can certainly get an AV person out, by in my experience, I usually have more issues after someone has been, than I had afterward, I usually find a few days later something I use a lot isn't working or someone has "tuned" the system and made a bunch of changes and it's messed other things up.

 

I agree none of those things should be related to the Sub, but I suspect after last night where I found the Sub was set to -7.5 and adjusting this made the Sub "present" and "louder" that it's something like that that's a problem. I am almost inclined to factory reset the amp, though setting up the inputs again from scratch would be a nightmare.

 

 




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  #2426745 25-Feb-2020 09:40
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ShinyChrome:

 

jonathan18:

One option to consider - could it be worth paying for an AV expert to help you set up the amp and sub? Could save a decent amount of time and guarantee the best possible results.

 

I feel like this is a massively understated point; $100-$200 for a professional to get the best of a system you have sunk thousands into is a no-brainer, and save you hours of fumbling in the dark yourself.

 

The only reason I don't is I actually enjoy the endless tinkering haha.

 

 

I also like tinkering, and to be honest, some of the worst setups I've seen is when I have hired a "pro" to come and do things like this.

 

It feels like you get 10 people in they will all do things differently.


 
 
 
 


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  #2426757 25-Feb-2020 10:07
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networkn:

 

Part of the issue is, my primary seating postion now is a Lazy Boy which is about 1.4m from the Subwoofer to the left of the room. That's "my" seat. I have a couch where my wife and kids mostly sit.

 

Do I take the measurements from the Lazy Boy or from the "ideal" center of the couch? The other factor is that the couch is against the back wall, and the rear surrounds are there on the wall as well. The down-firing Atmos speakers (polk 8") are in the ceiling in front of the couch.

 

I am not sure why the speakers are showing different outputs, I assumed this was set with the YPAO? Is it not? If not set by YPAO, then I can reset them to whatever they should be, easily enough.

 

I can certainly get an AV person out, by in my experience, I usually have more issues after someone has been, than I had afterward, I usually find a few days later something I use a lot isn't working or someone has "tuned" the system and made a bunch of changes and it's messed other things up.

 

I agree none of those things should be related to the Sub, but I suspect after last night where I found the Sub was set to -7.5 and adjusting this made the Sub "present" and "louder" that it's something like that that's a problem. I am almost inclined to factory reset the amp, though setting up the inputs again from scratch would be a nightmare.

 

 

If doing manually, I suggest you follow my idea of the 'best seat in the house'; it's inevitable you'll end up with the garbled results you've currently got if you're using a single point which is so far away from the 'ideal'. Do more advanced YPAO versions provide for more than a single reading? If so, when you do get around to using the auto-calibration you can input multiple location data, but I'd still use that 'best seat' as your prime reference.

 

Speakers are showing different outputs because you're measuring them from a point that's completely off-centre, as reflected in the distance calculations: to get the same volume from each speaker at that off-centre point many of them will need to be boosted. (That said, the measurements to your fronts reverse this, with the right apparently closer than the left!).

 

Re getting professional help: The answer may be to sit down with them while they do the calibration and setup to watch what they do and ask questions; this way may take longer and therefore cost a bit more, but you'll have the understanding of how and why they've done it a particular way, and also ensure they don't make changes you're not happy with.

 

Re next steps: The ways forward have all been laid out for you in earlier posts, and I'll summarise some of these below; a full reset is probably not needed, at least not until you do follow the advice given and that is shown not to work.

 

  • Run YPAO again, using the mic on a tripod or similar; if using a single point, make that the 'best seat in the house'.
  • - or - just do all the measurements manually from this 'best seat' and enter the data in the amp.
  • Ensure the distances are correctly measured; measure them from this 'best seat'.
  • Whatever YPAO sets, adjust all speaker sizes to 'small' and adjust the crossovers to a suitably high number (ideas given earlier), and ensure distances makes sense.
  • If you can't hear the sub then try boosting it in the amp's settings (for testing purposes; not suggesting as a long-term setting).
  • Try unplugging all the other speakers to see what is being outputted to the sub. (There is no way a centre channel should be putting out more LF than the sub!)

Do those things, perhaps, and then report back on the results; include updated photos of those screens from your amp set-up.


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  #2426774 25-Feb-2020 10:56
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assuming your sub works, then it is possible you don't hear or feel any bass is because the bass sound is not reflected to your head. sub placement is very senstive especially if your room doesn't reflect bass but passes it out to the bedrooms and neighbours.

 

google crawl for bass https://www.audioholics.com/home-theater-connection/crawling-for-bass-subwoofer-placement





Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.




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  #2426787 25-Feb-2020 10:59
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I can now hear the Sub, so I believe it's unlikely a fault. I am not sure why the YPAO has set it's volume to -7.5 when at that setting you can't really hear it, also if I am supposed to "fix it" by increasing the volume level at the Amp.

 

I'll try running the YPAO as discussed hopefully tonight, and see how I go.

 

Part of the issue is I am not sure how to tell if it's "right" I could hear bass last night, the upstairs was vibrating slightly when I had the volume up, so it's powerful enough, but it sounded a bit "boomy" to me.

 

Let's see what the recalibration shows.

 

 




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  #2426788 25-Feb-2020 11:00
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Does anyone have any ideas if the YPAO mics are the same between generation of devices? Ie are 2019 same as 2016 etc? 


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  #2426794 25-Feb-2020 11:15
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May not be a mic issue. Is your room an open space / high ceiling? Or closed up concrete bomb proof safe?




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.




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  #2426799 25-Feb-2020 11:21
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It's a standard 10 year old brick and tile home. 2.4m ceilings. Thick Carpet, Leather and wood furniture.

 

I found the guide @dunnersfella posted slightly confusing. It says don't put the Mic on a hard surface like a table (ok) or couch (couches are soft) and then says mount it on a tripod (hard).

 

I guess I'll just give it a go as best I can and see what happens.

 

 


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  #2426804 25-Feb-2020 11:26
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networkn:

 

It's a standard 10 year old brick and tile home. 2.4m ceilings. Thick Carpet, Leather and wood furniture.

 

I found the guide @dunnersfella posted slightly confusing. It says don't put the Mic on a hard surface like a table (ok) or couch (couches are soft) and then says mount it on a tripod (hard).

 

I guess I'll just give it a go as best I can and see what happens.

 

 

 

 

you want as little sound reflection that can be picked up by the mic. you want the mic to pick up the sound directly from the speaker.

 

hence not on concrete floor or table.

 

hence the tripod with no reflective surface.





Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.




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  #2426805 25-Feb-2020 11:27
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you want as little sound reflection that can be picked up by the mic. you want the mic to pick up the sound directly from the speaker.

 

hence not on concrete floor or table.

 

hence the tripod with no reflective surface.

 

 

Ah ok, yeah, that makes more sense.

 

 


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