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4449 posts

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  #2475591 3-May-2020 08:51
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I still find it perplexing why it takes 15 minutes for the problem to occur and why operating the remote prevents it (going by your OP).

 

Just as an aside, have you gone back to Trustpower and told them the TV they gave you is (may be) faulty? Your reasoning being that the TV it replaced operated perfectly with the same setup. It was essentially DOA when you got it and level 4 restrictions have prevented you getting a replacement. If they swap the set for another and the problem remains it is no loss to you (except for a bit of time). If it removes the problem even better!

 

Im not sure what video input and output info your Denon can display (either on its front panel or on screen) but you should be able to see what the TV is receiving.





Areas of Geek interest: Home Theatre, HTPC, Android Tablets & Phones, iProducts.



Sheldon
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  #2475594 3-May-2020 09:00
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Dingbatt:

You tried your Sky decoder direct, but what about the AppleTV using the long cable? My AppleTV tells me if the cable isn’t good enough.


The reason I ask is to do with the resolution that you are trying to pass down your long cable. Sky does up to 1080i at best I think. The rest is handled by either the Amp or the TV to do the required upscaling. Depending on which ATV you have, it will be 1080p or 4K.


If your Amp is set to “Auto” in the resolution settings, it may be negotiating with the TV, seeing a 4K capability, and trying to poke 4K down the cable, which might be borderline for the cable to cope with.



Plugging the ATV into the long cable and then direct to the TV.
The Tv can see there is something plugged in but no picture shows.

So it must be the cable?

 
 
 
 




Sheldon
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  #2475596 3-May-2020 09:04
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No. I have not contacted Trustpower as I assumed they were just the man in the middle and they would contact Samsung and then me, slowing things down.

15 minutes was how it started but it did appear more random as time went on.
One night before I unplugged everything the picture was dropping for a second once a minute or so.
Sound was fine and the tv stayed on. It would correct itself
At first is was so well timed with the change of scenes I thought it was the show but alas. It wasn’t.



Sheldon
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  #2475714 3-May-2020 10:28
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Further to the Apple TV test, if I plug the atv in to the long cable, them to the amp right at the tv. Then amp to tv. It all word fine.

Thus it much be the feed down the 20m hdmi cable to the larger (but still 4K tv)

I’ve found the hdmi fibre cable in NZ for a decent price and that could be shipped here by Tuesday.
Not much spec on the page so I am open to your guidance if it’s good for the job.


https://cdlnz.com/Y-C1030BK

I’ve also taken the time to tidy up the speaker cables at the amp and will order some banana plugs at the same time.
(Hopefully the photo will be the right way up)
Click to see full size

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  #2475725 3-May-2020 11:28
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If you can set the feed to the TV direct via the long cable, either from the Amp or the ATV, to a lower resolution (1080p) do you get a picture? I know you ultimately want a 4K feed, but just trying to see if your existing cable is up to it (it obviously was for your old TV). In the end it might be that the newer TV is ‘pickier’ about its input signal.

 

There is a substantial amount of money (and effort) involved in replacing the cable so that is why I suggest exhausting all other possibilities first, including swapping the TV for a new one. In this case who is actually the retailer that supplied the TV?

 

20m is quite long for an hdmi cable. The longest I have is 10m. Anything above that I use powered hdmi via Ethernet cables. Even those struggle with 4K sometimes (despite what it says on the tin). HDMI is great in many ways, but is also really frustrating when it doesn’t work.





Areas of Geek interest: Home Theatre, HTPC, Android Tablets & Phones, iProducts.

231 posts

Master Geek


  #2475733 3-May-2020 11:44
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I hope you looked into TrustPower's winter pricing before signing up. It's roughly double what I pay with a competing providers, which is presumably how they fund the "free" TV. Using the energy provider comparison websites they always come out most expensive (like $1,000 a year more) than the other providers. If I were you, assuming this is a genuine fault, I would be looking to use it as an excuse to get out of the contract while you can.


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  #2475771 3-May-2020 13:37
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FYI - I don't recommend HDMI for anything longer than 7m unless you're using fibre or 'active' HDMI cables.

 

The cheapest cable isn't always the best solution when runs get long, sadly.


 
 
 
 




Sheldon
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  #2475792 3-May-2020 14:37
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Dunnersfella:

FYI - I don't recommend HDMI for anything longer than 7m unless you're using fibre or 'active' HDMI cables.


The cheapest cable isn't always the best solution when runs get long, sadly.




What would you suggest?



boosacnoodle:

I hope you looked into TrustPower's winter pricing before signing up. It's roughly double what I pay with a competing providers.



I said Trustpower internet... never mentioned power.
But we are a Trustpower power customer and I have over the years often price checked and compared.
With the bundle pricing, our gold friends plan and the tect check - it’s NOT ANYWHERE NEAR WHAT YOU THINK AND NOT ACTUALLY THAT EXPENSIVE.
The tv is only related to the internet deal/plan which compares to my 2d and Spark max max accounts we have at our office, and I’m not going any further into the power pricing debate.

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  #2475793 3-May-2020 14:38
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Dunnersfella:

 

FYI - I don't recommend HDMI for anything longer than 7m unless you're using fibre or 'active' HDMI cables.

 

The cheapest cable isn't always the best solution when runs get long, sadly.

 

 

Slightly OT, but optical HDMI cables were new to me. Just did a bit of research and they look pretty good. Am I right in thinking they don’t need to be externally powered? I understand they have to be installed in the correct direction but assume they still support ARC.

 

The biggest limitation I can see is that caution must be taken not the take the cable below its design radius during installation and certainly not to kink it. But these are precautions I undertook when I installed my current cable runs anyway. The 10m cables were high quality when I installed them but I’ve got a feeling they are maxed out at the moment and the next equipment upgrade will be too much for them.  I have already replaced my 20m hdmi over cat5 once due to the electronics failing, so the next time it happens I’ll certainly be investigating optical.





Areas of Geek interest: Home Theatre, HTPC, Android Tablets & Phones, iProducts.

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  #2475812 3-May-2020 14:48
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Optical / fibre... however it is referred to is the future for HDMI cabling.

 

Not only for 18Gbps 4K, but also with an eye on 48Gbps for HDMI 2.1 products that will be released late this year + early 2021.

 

Products like the PS5 and XBox Series X will be able to send 12 bit, 4:4:4 video @ 120 frames over the allowed bandwidth in the HDMI 2.1 standard and copper cables won't be delivering anything close to the performance required once we get past a couple of meters.

 

Of course Cat 6 is limited to 10Gbps due to the inherent cable design, and no matter how fancy the boxes at either end claim to be, there will always be compression and or conversion happening.

 

 

 

Fibre / optical cables will come in a few varieties.

 

Typically with a copper run incorporated to take the CEC element and often with a micro USB at the source end to maintain voltage as all cables, no matter the construction method, have loss.

 

However they do not 'need' to be powered, it's just that it is a good, but slightly more expensive thing that manufacturers may choose to incorporate.

 

 

 

Be aware, if you're looking to future proof for 48Gbps, the HDMI RX/TX standard is set, but the cable standard is NOT.

 

So it's still the wild west out there in cable land with manufacturers making their typical outlandish claims, but in reality there's no real world source material to test with AND still no standard.

 

What is thought to be the most likely outcome will be that all 4 channels in HDMI will now be used to transmit data (not just 3) and that if a cable can't handle the bandwidth, you'll still get a picture - just at a lower quality.

 

Whether a custom will be able to tell though, well that's up for debate... as when they'll press the 'info' button on their TV, the TV will typically report the meta-data at the source end, not what it is actually receiving! That's right, TV companies 'stretch the truth'.




Sheldon
92 posts

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  #2493672 28-May-2020 14:09
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Post LD, I've now had a local tech out, and for the first time in history - it faulted right in front of his eyes. 

 

Within minutes of his arrival, and I asked to hang around for a bit and 15 minutes later.. of again. 

 

 

 

We've done another factory reset, he has plugged something in the HDMI and USB ports and he is going to come back in a couple of days...

 

 

 

BTW - I did splash out and for a 20m HDMI Fibre cable and have run that, it worked perfectly for 2 days then started faulting again. 

 

 


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