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  Reply # 194864 9-Feb-2009 10:55
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elkano are you running the ninja without the fan? If so what temps are you getting on the CPU?

I have just ordered one myself after much research and like you would idealy like to run it fanless. I have a AMD X2 3800+ CPU. I have my two case fans running on 7 volts fixed.

The other option that I thought of yesterday but not sure if it would work would be to turn the heatsink fan so that it draws cool air from the side opening that I have had blocked off till now. however my concern is that the rest of the airflow in the case would reduce so just keeping that as an idea for now.

The current heat wave is ideal for  finding out how your media center handles heatWink The standard AMD CPU fan fair howls at times Surprised







Media centre PC - Case Silverstone LC16M with 2 X 80mm AcoustiFan DustPROOF, MOBO Gigabyte MA785GT-UD3H, CPU AMD X2 240 under volted, RAM 4 Gig DDR3 1033, HDD 120Gig System/512Gig data, Tuners 2 X Hauppauge HVR-3000, 1 X HVR-2200, Video Palit GT 220, Sound Realtek 886A HD (onboard), Optical LiteOn DH-401S Blue-ray using TotalMedia Theatre Power Corsair VX Series, 450W ATX PSU OS Windows 7 x64



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  Reply # 194878 9-Feb-2009 12:46
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Hi NetY,

I am running the ninja without the fan but currently its running far too hot (~60C) so I'm definitely going to have to change my setup. I will try it with the fan connected tonight (pulling in air from the side vent as you were also thinking). I may try reapplying the thermal grease too, it took me so long to get the heatsink on last-time I think I had wiped most of it off.
When getting the heatsink on I had real issues, in the end I took out the side-vent meshing and this really helped. I'd be interested if you find a better way, I just found it way too hard without being able to see the clips!

I have the standard case fans running on 5v, but may change these soon for Noctua's.
The acoustifans seem good too- You're pretty happy with their performance?

Interestingly it looks like we have very near the same setup. Case, CPU and I just got myself a EN8500GT (fanless) due to having issues with freeview and the onboard ATI chipset.

Yes, the Standard AMD cooler sounded like a 747 warming up in comparison to the other components :-)

Currently I still have what I consider to be an unacceptable amount of noise, so when I isolate whether its my PSU or its the case fans I'll be trying to quieten things down. Keep getting quieter parts, only to find the sound bottleneck somewhere else ;-)


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  Reply # 194888 9-Feb-2009 13:06
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Yeah I can see the installation being interesting. I am hoping I can get the CPU cooler on without having to remove the whole MOBO. I just had to do that last week as I could not get the zalman northbridge cooler off the MOBO without getting at the underside. Not too keen to do it again a week later.Frown

From the sound of the reviews I read on the ninja the fan that comes with it is not the best. I will have to have a look and see if I have a better one sitting around. I am hoping that the fan will not need to work nearly as hard as the cooler itself is a lot better.

I am very happy with the acousti's. Running on 7 volts they just do not come into the sound equation. According to the web site they are at 15.6 db at that speed which is quieter then the room WinkThey put though a good amoung of air as well. They are quite expencive however and not sure if the dust proof side really justifys the extra cost. I also don't know how they compare to the fans suggested by SPCR.







Media centre PC - Case Silverstone LC16M with 2 X 80mm AcoustiFan DustPROOF, MOBO Gigabyte MA785GT-UD3H, CPU AMD X2 240 under volted, RAM 4 Gig DDR3 1033, HDD 120Gig System/512Gig data, Tuners 2 X Hauppauge HVR-3000, 1 X HVR-2200, Video Palit GT 220, Sound Realtek 886A HD (onboard), Optical LiteOn DH-401S Blue-ray using TotalMedia Theatre Power Corsair VX Series, 450W ATX PSU OS Windows 7 x64



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  Reply # 194901 9-Feb-2009 14:08
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I managed to get it on without removing the motherboard, but as I said I needed to remove the vent meshing on the side to do it.
May try the noctuas then, they seem to have pretty good reviews. I was looking for the scythe kama flows but I can only find the higher RPM ones here, the lower RPM ones are not available.

Truthfully, I think the loudest thing may still be the case fans, although I'll check out the power supply as well. But it has a 120mm fan and as far as I remember it was pretty quiet.

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  Reply # 194905 9-Feb-2009 14:49
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You can always unplug the fans one at a time to confirm where the noise is coming from. Just make sure the PC is off before unpluging a fan and just run it long enough to get an idea of the noise from that component.







Media centre PC - Case Silverstone LC16M with 2 X 80mm AcoustiFan DustPROOF, MOBO Gigabyte MA785GT-UD3H, CPU AMD X2 240 under volted, RAM 4 Gig DDR3 1033, HDD 120Gig System/512Gig data, Tuners 2 X Hauppauge HVR-3000, 1 X HVR-2200, Video Palit GT 220, Sound Realtek 886A HD (onboard), Optical LiteOn DH-401S Blue-ray using TotalMedia Theatre Power Corsair VX Series, 450W ATX PSU OS Windows 7 x64

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  Reply # 195283 11-Feb-2009 11:10
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elkano:

I am running the ninja without the fan but currently its running far too hot (~60C) so I'm definitely going to have to change my setup....

...I have the standard case fans running on 5v, but may change these soon for Noctua's....

elkano, I installed my ninja mini last night. Yes it was a prick to install. Had to move one of the clips down as I was having to apply too much pressure to get it on.

I have a couple of questions concerning your setup. When you say it is running too hot. Was that 60C under load or on idle? Looking at the thermal needs of the 3800+ they can handle up to 65C so if that was under full load then it is acceptable.

Also you mention that you are running the fans at 5v. Was that at the same time as the CPU being at 60C?

I am considering if I could get away with removing CPU fan off the ninja as it is quite noisy and connect the case fans to the CPU header.

Last night from my testing under full load and an ambiant temp of around 23C I was getting a CPU temp of max 53C and the cooler was barely warm at the top. the moment I stopped the test the CPU temp plunged down to around 40C then continued to creep down.








Media centre PC - Case Silverstone LC16M with 2 X 80mm AcoustiFan DustPROOF, MOBO Gigabyte MA785GT-UD3H, CPU AMD X2 240 under volted, RAM 4 Gig DDR3 1033, HDD 120Gig System/512Gig data, Tuners 2 X Hauppauge HVR-3000, 1 X HVR-2200, Video Palit GT 220, Sound Realtek 886A HD (onboard), Optical LiteOn DH-401S Blue-ray using TotalMedia Theatre Power Corsair VX Series, 450W ATX PSU OS Windows 7 x64



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  Reply # 195293 11-Feb-2009 12:26
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Nety:

elkano, I installed my ninja mini last night. Yes it was a prick to install. Had to move one of the clips down as I was having to apply too much pressure to get it on.

I have a couple of questions concerning your setup. When you say it is running too hot. Was that 60C under load or on idle? Looking at the thermal needs of the 3800+ they can handle up to 65C so if that was under full load then it is acceptable.

Also you mention that you are running the fans at 5v. Was that at the same time as the CPU being at 60C?

I am considering if I could get away with removing CPU fan off the ninja as it is quite noisy and connect the case fans to the CPU header.

Last night from my testing under full load and an ambiant temp of around 23C I was getting a CPU temp of max 53C and the cooler was barely warm at the top. the moment I stopped the test the CPU temp plunged down to around 40C then continued to creep down.



Hi Nety,

Might try moving the clips too, I just wanted it on very sturdily the first time :-)

The 60C was running freeview and/or media files in Mediaportal, with both case fans at 5v. At most it was at about 60% load on the CPU.
As I said, I think I need to install the mini again (as much as that pains me) and make sure the thermal grease is properly applied. Sorry, I just haven't had time to do testing since my last reply.I'm hoping to this weekend I can:

1) reinstall the Mini Nija with thermal paste properly applied.
2) run tests with case fans running on 5v, 12v and temperature controlled (sys and cpu fan connectors).

What I'm thinking is I might get three 80mm Noctuas, 2 for the case and one for the CPU.

Just a question about how you have your PSU mounted. I have mine set up as per norm, but I hear some people may change whether air is pulled in or expelled with the PSU fan. How is yours setup and how is the change made?

Currently I only have the PSU fan and 2 case fans that came with the LC16, nothing pulling air in at the front (I just have the 1 small 80GB Harddrive in the HTPC and stream media from my other desktop).

Cheers,

Kano



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  Reply # 195307 11-Feb-2009 13:23
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I have the PSU with the fan facing inwards. I have not reversed the fan as I am trying to have air traveling from the front of the case where it is generally fairly cool and exiting out the back. I have heard of people reversing the fan but I have not considered doing it with the way the case is setup.

Thanks for the info. I will try and do some testing tonight and see what results I get with different fan options.







Media centre PC - Case Silverstone LC16M with 2 X 80mm AcoustiFan DustPROOF, MOBO Gigabyte MA785GT-UD3H, CPU AMD X2 240 under volted, RAM 4 Gig DDR3 1033, HDD 120Gig System/512Gig data, Tuners 2 X Hauppauge HVR-3000, 1 X HVR-2200, Video Palit GT 220, Sound Realtek 886A HD (onboard), Optical LiteOn DH-401S Blue-ray using TotalMedia Theatre Power Corsair VX Series, 450W ATX PSU OS Windows 7 x64



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  Reply # 195436 12-Feb-2009 00:36
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Nety: I have the PSU with the fan facing inwards. I have not reversed the fan as I am trying to have air traveling from the front of the case where it is generally fairly cool and exiting out the back. I have heard of people reversing the fan but I have not considered doing it with the way the case is setup.

Thanks for the info. I will try and do some testing tonight and see what results I get with different fan options.


Hey Nety.
Wow, what a difference a little testing makes.

First off, I had my power supply set up stupidly (wasn't paying attention when I installed it obviously).
So a quick change and immediately temps dropped about 10C. I still haven't installed a fan on the mini, so I may test things with one tomorrow.

From idle, with 12V running to the case fans the CPU temp is about 37C. Changing the case fans to 5V had a idle temp for CPU of about 43C. At 12V the fans were slightly audible, at 5V they are inaudible (or at least quieter than my sony TV).
When under load the CPU temp jumped up to about 47C with 12V and 55C with 5V.
I may try putting on the the fan that comes with the mini, but limit its speed to a very low threshold (if its at all audible then I'll try something else) and try and drop the 5V temps a little.

Anyway, with your acoustifans I imagine you'll see temperatures of less than 50C at full load and no fan on the mini.

The big surprise was the source of the sound in my system. With 5V the case fans were inaudible and I thought it might be the power supply that was the issue. After checking the PSU fan though it seemed very quiet compared to the overall system noise as well. I only had one other option, and after unplugging it the system was running practically silent- my hardrive appears to be the cause of things.

Now the question is: do I get a harddrive silencer, or try getting a newer model harddrive that doesn't make so much noise (or both!)?








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  Reply # 195456 12-Feb-2009 08:20
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I too did some testing last night.

I now have the case setup with no fan on the mini, the two case fans are plugged into the CPU fan header with a splitter and Q-Fan set in the bios (as I have always had).

The other thing I did after a bit of reading was undervolt the X2 to 1.275. I might be able to go lower but that seemed to be enough to drop the temp a bit and still have a rock solid CPU.

Now using everest burnin software the CPU got up to a max of 55C in a hot room (around 25C). That that point the case fans were running at 1800 rpm. Still quieter then the TV fan and only audible if I put my head next to the case. Playing blu ray which is about the toughest real life job the media centre does the CPU was sitting at around 46C.

Much happier with the sound levels now with that setup. As with you I think the loudest component is now the HDD.

I have never read any reviews on hard drive silencing but may be worth finding a good product and try that first. If it does not work replace the Hard drive and then you will have both working for you.







Media centre PC - Case Silverstone LC16M with 2 X 80mm AcoustiFan DustPROOF, MOBO Gigabyte MA785GT-UD3H, CPU AMD X2 240 under volted, RAM 4 Gig DDR3 1033, HDD 120Gig System/512Gig data, Tuners 2 X Hauppauge HVR-3000, 1 X HVR-2200, Video Palit GT 220, Sound Realtek 886A HD (onboard), Optical LiteOn DH-401S Blue-ray using TotalMedia Theatre Power Corsair VX Series, 450W ATX PSU OS Windows 7 x64



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  Reply # 195492 12-Feb-2009 11:34
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Hmm, thats some good advice. I might look at undervolting the X2 as well. How much of a temp drop did you find?
One of the things I've been meaning to do for a while is get a 4850e X2 which has a much cooler TDP of 45W versus the 89W of my current 3800+ X2. I know using that CPU the cooling won't be an issue.
But you have to get them from Aus or the US so at the moment I'm looking round for the best option of sourcing them (no idea why they aren't in NZ).

Have already done some looking into HD silencers. There were a few good reviews of the SilenX Luxurae. Interestingly one review had it increasing drive temp by at least 10C while several others have it at only about 2C. Think I'll go with the majority as it seems to be the best silencer (noise wise at least).



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  Reply # 195509 12-Feb-2009 13:01
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oh for a AM2 mobo.. mine is a 939 so stuck with the 89W TDP.

Dropping the voltage has dropped the temp by 5+deg so far and reading a bit more today looks like I should be able to drop it another .1 without getting too close to it running into problems. So should give me a 10C drop at least with no downsideCool







Media centre PC - Case Silverstone LC16M with 2 X 80mm AcoustiFan DustPROOF, MOBO Gigabyte MA785GT-UD3H, CPU AMD X2 240 under volted, RAM 4 Gig DDR3 1033, HDD 120Gig System/512Gig data, Tuners 2 X Hauppauge HVR-3000, 1 X HVR-2200, Video Palit GT 220, Sound Realtek 886A HD (onboard), Optical LiteOn DH-401S Blue-ray using TotalMedia Theatre Power Corsair VX Series, 450W ATX PSU OS Windows 7 x64



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  Reply # 195545 12-Feb-2009 14:34
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That is a significant drop, will see if I can do the same tonight!

What are you using to drop the voltage (I assume just in BIOS)?

Also, did you ever experience any issues with starting the LC16M with the remote?
At the moment I can't get it booting from the remote at all, have tried both the Imon remote and using an MCE remote.

I'm thinking I might have the VFD wires mixed somehow, but I also saw on a forum somewhere that one guy didn't get the cable that supports this included and had to buy it seperately.





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  Reply # 195557 12-Feb-2009 15:46
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Yes just in the bios. Confirm what voltage it uses first. Then set the cpu settings to manual and lower away. Suggest running something like Prime95 after you have lowered it to make sure it is stable.

I have had the problem with starting the PC using the imon hardware and yes for me I had hooked the cabling up incorrectly. However I now don't the imon hardware as I had some issues with it not interacting correctly with TMT. I now use the MS IR receiver which seems to be better anyway.







Media centre PC - Case Silverstone LC16M with 2 X 80mm AcoustiFan DustPROOF, MOBO Gigabyte MA785GT-UD3H, CPU AMD X2 240 under volted, RAM 4 Gig DDR3 1033, HDD 120Gig System/512Gig data, Tuners 2 X Hauppauge HVR-3000, 1 X HVR-2200, Video Palit GT 220, Sound Realtek 886A HD (onboard), Optical LiteOn DH-401S Blue-ray using TotalMedia Theatre Power Corsair VX Series, 450W ATX PSU OS Windows 7 x64



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  Reply # 195564 12-Feb-2009 16:39
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Nety: oh for a AM2 mobo.. mine is a 939 so stuck with the 89W TDP.

Dropping the voltage has dropped the temp by 5+deg so far and reading a bit more today looks like I should be able to drop it another .1 without getting too close to it running into problems. So should give me a 10C drop at least with no downsideCool


Thats running at stock speed?

From SPCR forums I got the following:

AMD Athlon X2 3800+ - Windsor (AM2) stock - 1.35V

Minimum: 0.8 GHz @ 0.900 V
Stock: 2.0 GHz @ 1.125 V
OC'ed (sort of): 2.3 GHz @ 1.275 V

Minimum: 1 GHz @ 0.800 V
1.6 GHz (Crystal CPUID): 1.6 GHz @ 0.900 V
Stock: 2.0 GHz @ 0.975 V


So might drop mine down tonight and see if I can get the same heat reductions you were getting on your Manchester core.



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