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411 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 197185 21-Feb-2009 22:36
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maaaaaaaaaaaasive difference. think about the defination a 4gb media can hold for a 90min movie VS a 25gb media for 90min movie.  seriously guys whoever said they cant see the difference are either expecting too much from technology or blind..

4962 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 197309 22-Feb-2009 16:42
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Well it depends. Out of interest I backed up a copy of my Die Hard 4 (well actually Live free or Die Hard) BD title t a 4.5Gb H.264 file. I rescaled the image to 1280x720 to match my 1366x768 TV

Than compared the playback of the original BD title and the backup. The original has a filesize of about 20Gb but there are multiple audio tracks in there while my backup only had a AC3 track.

While in a direct comparison there were some slight differences (mainly in sharpness of the image - didn't detect any additional macroblocks or other compression artifacts) without that direct comparison it was difficult to see the difference. I qualify this by saying this was on a non full HD set - if I had available a 50in or large full HD set I suspect the differences might have been easier to detect.

OTOH comparing an upscaled DVD of a movie versus a BD version (or even a compressed BD version) is for me like night and day. The fuzziness of DVD, even upscaled versus the clarity of a good BD release are pretty evident. For more eveidence check out this thread

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1089714

Note that when viewing on your PC, there is already some upscaling taking place of the DVD image though of course nothing smart.




System One: Popcorn Hour A200,  PS3 SuperSlim, NPVR and Plex Server running on Gigabyte Brix (Windows 10 Pro), Sony BDP-S390 BD player, Pioneer AVR, Raspberry Pi running Kodi and Plex, Panasonic 60" 3D plasma, Google Chromecast

System Two: Popcorn Hour A200 ,  Oppo BDP-80 BluRay Player with hardware mode to be region free, Vivitek HD1080P 1080P DLP projector with 100" screen. Harman Kardon HK AVR 254 7.1 receiver, Samsung 4K player, Google Chromecast

 


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510 posts

Ultimate Geek


  Reply # 197398 23-Feb-2009 05:07
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As mentioned earlier I went to the Bristol AV show where they were doing a upscaled vs blu-ray.
The Set up was two Pioneer Kuros both ISF calibrated to be the same.
The upscaled DVD was using JVC's latest Upscaling Technology and the Blu-ray was a Pioneer player.
Was there a difference...yes..the USDVD was not as sharp as the bluray and better skintones on the Bluray as well...But both had a good picture and I think if you didn't have TV set up correctly with your bluray player
then it could well look like the USDVD picture.




"In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." -
  --  Abraham lincoln

239 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 197713 24-Feb-2009 12:09
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Bare in mind with any comparisons that the weakest link will always dominate the result.

The quality of the original print on the DVD or Blueray can effect what the result is, some are bad enough on Blueray to nulify any goodness a Blueray player and HD display can do. I believe some early Bluerays disks are just transfers onto that medium. Some DVD prints are very good, so much so upscaled will be very hard to tell the difference with a Blueray version. Some early blueray disks have been remastered though because of transfer quality issues which also may includes sound improvements.

If you try and discern differences in fast moving scenes you might have trouble seeing anything. This is where your brain processing can fill the blanks inwhich we are all different and then you have the displays ability to process fast material, both of which influence any perceivable differences.
Also over processing by a display can influence the result. ie noise reduction features and so forth.

Another factor is calibration, without sounding like promotion, does infact tidy up the informational relationships so that your perception of the final visual deception is inhanced.

In the end though HD source material contains more information(Don't forget sound aspect), both quite a considerable jump in quanity and quality. SD and upconversion though will be around for a while because there is a large base of SD DVD players already which people aren't ready to stop using just yet.

Once you view HD long enough returning to SD has you reaching for controls thinking something is wrong.





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57 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 197741 24-Feb-2009 13:43
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I have both a very good upscaler (Toshiba XA2 - Reon chipset) and a BD player (PS3) connected to a 50' Bravia X (120hz). My XA2 (turned into a region free XE1) has primarily been relogated to SD and so has been calibrated as such. Comparing movies that have high quality transfers in both mediums been a little problamatic (i.e. some have high quality DVD releases but are sub-par BD releases or vice versa).

Blu-ray is easy to find a PQ reference... (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=858316), bit harder with DVD.

Few titles I've been able to review include The Fifth Element (DVD Superbit) vs. (BD Remastered), Apocalypto (DVD) vs. (BD) and two animations Cars (DVD) vs. (BD) and Tekon Kinkreet (DVD) vs. (BD). Just a note, this is obviously my personal opinion, and simply using my eyecrometer :). BD are running at 1080p24, DVDs at 1080p.

I have to say straight away that the animations showed the greatest improvement (which I kind of expected). The level of detail in Cars is stunning. Even with me altering the the post-processing features on the Reon (specifically EE - I usually have these off) I couldn't get even close to the sharpness of the BD, and the visual pop is stunning on the BD. The motion in both the DVD and BD are great, probably added by the Reon.

The handdrawn line detail in Tekon Kinkreet is just beautiful on BD, whereas aliasing effects and noise were present on the DVD. Adding some of the DNR features of the Reon corrected quite allot of this but there still wasn't anywhere near the level of detail.

The Fifth Element wasn't as bigger jump. The Superbit DVD looks pretty damn nice upscaled, but there is still an overall sharper image on the BD. This becomes more apparent on closeups of faces etc... Wasn't the same pop effect though present in Cars, which is fine, I want my live action films looking more real than imagined.

Apocalypto is georgous on both DVD and BD. But unlike The Fifth Element is very noticable. The detail in nearly every shot is stunning. The detail in the leaves on the trees in the forests, the closeups on the faces, the city (espeacially the crowd shots) is wonderfully detailed. I couldn't get the same detail even when appliying EE and sharpness on the Reon.

On a side note, I've seen plenty of poorly mastered BDs that my XA2 has come extremely close (if not beaten) when upscaling. Really think it's highly dependant on the source. If the BD is mastered well then, depending on your screen size and viewing distance, there should be noticable to significant improvements in picture quality.

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