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  # 224019 11-Jun-2009 15:25
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Yes, but that ends up costing the same (or more) than physical delivery (as in Fatso DVD-by-mail). And you can't justify the digital transport costing the same as a guy at the post office sorting the Fatso DVDs out.

You don't have to make it 'free traffic'. But $2/GB (in Orcon's case) is a bit too much to ask if you already have to pay $6-8 for a movie, and each movie having 1-2GBs.

I, for one, would definitely opt out of downloading movies through torrents if I could just as easily (and for a bit less money) point my Xbox 360/Apple TV/etc to a streaming service like this.

"Roads? Where we're going, we don't need roads." - Doc Emmet Brown

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  # 224037 11-Jun-2009 15:53
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I agree with magu. But digital delivery will cost someone a few dollars, hopefully not the end user. Orcon may not be too happy about free traffic as they are going to be talking some serious traffic (far more than any other site in the ozone), at least 1gb per movie. Fatso could negotiate distribution costs with orcon (or said isp) though, for example fatso give orcon the equivilant that it costs them to send out via the courier.. even $5 a month per user would help with traffic costs. getting 22,000 dvds online could be quite a task though, i wonder how big orcons datacentre is??? that would mitigate most traffic issues.. Scott bartlett would inherit quite the movie collection too :D

For the record i too would sign up for this if it was to come out, if it would seemlessly connect to ps3, xbox360, windows media centre that would be a bonus


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  # 224071 11-Jun-2009 16:49
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I do mind paying the costs of downloading unlicenced copys when the rest of the world doesn't have that restriction on it. There are plenty of people on some of the trackers I use with ratios over 20 - and that's without a seedbox too, yet in NZ to even get a ratio of 1 I have to have over twice the size of the downloaded file in data costs so thats one thing in favor of the streaming service.

If you are to compare it to a list of rapidshare etc links that you get with jdownloader, then you dont have the upstream component to worry about which makes the paid rapidshare account a more valid option to me then paying fatso for content.

Plus with the fatso stuff there will be DRM that prevents me from ripping etc, whereas the discs that they send I can keep a copy as I have done when not having time to watch them, with the unlicensed are already in a saveable format without hassles of ripping and reencoding.

If I was sold unlimited access to a library of files I could keep that were licensed etc for a small amount more then the cost of torrenting or a rapidshare/megauploads account then I might be interested..

Oh, did I mention that the releases have to be timely? Fatso are well behind on the US DVD releases with the delivery service that its only viable for old catalog stuff.

So to sum it up, $20 a month and zero rated traffic and I would consider it, so long as they are good quality files and not looking like a dodgey 700 meg divx with lousy stereo sound. Possibly PPV on files if they are good quality, current, and no more then $4 or so.

Any more, or low quality stuff and forget it, and forget PPV on old catalog stuff.
edit: Still issues applying strikethru with the editor :(


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  # 224141 11-Jun-2009 20:19
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freitasm: So here's my question: what is the difference of using your caps for "illegal" downloads and not wanting to use it for "legal" downloads?

If the quality is going to be what it should be, then your cap won't be sufficient enough in a month.

Peering or whatever you call it (when a content provider and ISP(s) have an agreement not to charge for data used between the two providers) agreements should be in place to offer an incentive to use services such as video on demand for fatso, Sky, TVNZ, TV3 etc.

Yes, someone has to pay for it, but surely local traffic would be cheaper than international, and with peering agreements, a one off fee should cover the cost?

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  # 224155 11-Jun-2009 21:53
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People will get things at the minimun cost, if that means only data charges, then thats acceptable. People dont want to be charged a membership fee and data fees when they know they dont have to.

Hence illegeal downloads!!!!!!


A person may by prepared to pay for:

-data charges of $1 per GB

-monthly fee to fullspeed server (instead of torrent) NZ$17 p/mth

-ISP charges $70 p/mth

Instead of downloading illegally, with the movie/tv show/ music companys not getting any money, they should band together with the gov and ISP's, to supply these articles in question at the same price it costs you to download. ie- a share of $1GB+$17+$70 (maybe use local servers to limit international bandwidth, therefore cost)

Fatso, if going online (with fast servers), would be in its best interest to supply the customer with a product at the same price as downloading illegally. The only way i can see forward is unmetering said data and paying a monthly membership fee,-keeping the prices around the same as the illegal method.

edit: sorry it would be in the best interests of the movie companys etc to use above method, might reduce illegeal downloading while getting revenue.

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  # 224185 11-Jun-2009 23:12
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vodafone & sky announced a deal to work together in late 2008 - this could be the start of that work?

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  # 224187 11-Jun-2009 23:14
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wazza15: vodafone & sky announced a deal to work together in late 2008 - this could be the start of that work?

Vodafone is now offering SKY packages. Same pricing as SKY.

Do whatever you want to do man.



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  # 224241 12-Jun-2009 09:12
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It wouldnt launch without some form of free trafic to the site, wether it be through the ozone or equivalent. People need to realise that free national traffic is a thing of the past, its not coming back! However with isp's offering free local traffic to certain sites its a good alternative. Isps are very reluctant to bring back free local traffic for several reasons, one being that it will bring back the days of DC++ local traffic hubs, private local nz torrent sites, before you know it local traffic will have trippeld, because of people downloading there linux iso's.. ;)  Local traffic is not free, sure its not expensive either but it does cost isp's money to route there traffic through other isp's. I remember an old xnet or slingshot plan that had local traffic at 1/10th of international traffic, so 10gbs of national traffic would cost you 1gb of international traffic, that was a good way of doing it and should possibly be looked at again.

If parents were to monitor there kids internet usage (perhaps there own too) and rein in the rampant piracy they wouldn't be facing big over usage charges. Im starting to laugh at all the people complaining about large international data caps etc, more for less, more for less!! Its not how business works, they are there to turn a profit, and lets face it theres not going to be any major changes in data caps in the near future no matter how much the public whines about it.. If you want large data caps then you best be prepared to pay a premium for it.
You find its people that live on torrent sites downloading said "linux iso's" that are the loudest about data caps not being big enough..

20gb of international should be pleanty for your avg joe household, if your going over that then someone is almost certainly doing something dodgy.. note i said average joe household, not someone doing online backups etc etc

Firstly I would like to point out that not all people that complain about data charges are downloading torrents. In fact I do not have any torrent software on my network, and no the kid doesn't either he is only 5 months old.

My internet downloads each month consist of

Technet ISO's , no need to download linux iso's here. The traffic is shaped and takes an age. I have to schedule the Microsoft File Download manager for after 1am and use Autolite script to start it and stop it before 7am. A 3GB Windows 7 RC can take two days to download because of this scheduling for free data on slingshot after 1am. In fact the last lot of downloads I scheduled (about 25GB worth) cancelled halfway through because you only get a week to download the files.

General news, tech, and trademe web sites. I have seen the wife use 500mb a day on trademe and this cannot be downloaded after 1am so no free rides there.

Software updates be it Microsoft Security, Antivirus, Nvidia drivers, general hardware drivers, EPG downloads. This can range from a few hundred MB a month to several GB.

Now we move onto the interesting stuff Rapidshare, megaupload,, blah blah blah. All scheduled for after 1am and all stopped before 7am. Either way it is free and doesn't impact my data cap.

So that only really leaves the general web usage that somehow manages to use over the 15GB limit each month. I am waiting on the 40GB Next Big Thing plans from slingshot and I will not have to pay for any extra downloads each month.

I suppose after all of that the real point is that the data costs are to high and the data caps are to low, we wonder why we rate so poorly in OECD ratings when in the hugely expensive UK you can get a phone line and 24mb unlimited downloads for the lovely some of about 35 pounds a month.

Just like everything else in NZ we sit back and lap it up, lets the Banks, PowerCo's, and Councils bleed us dry. It doesn't matter how small we are competition is supposed to reduce prices but it clearly ain't happening in NZ.

anyway back on topic, good luck to anyone starting a download service in NZ, I will not be using it until I see all the pro's and con's of such system and the pricing structure is the same as it is now.

Example $27 for two discs at a time unlimited disc's per month. Would translate to $27 for unlimited movies a month you can download two at a time (if possible) and keep them as long as you want.


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  # 229409 29-Jun-2009 23:59
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freitasm: Assuming a lot of people say they wouldn't want Fatso downloads (or any legal downloads) unless it's "zero metering". I'd put a bet that a lot of these people are already downloading TV series and movies anyway through torrents, without "zero metering".

So here's my question: what is the difference of using your caps for "illegal" downloads and not wanting to use it for "legal" downloads?

(Note I am not saying you allstarnz does it, but this is the kind of thing that crossed my mind when I read your reply).

I guess the difference is you only have to pay once.  So you download an illegal movie, it's free and you only pay for the traffic, or you pay for a movie service and you get free downloads.  It's not so cool to have to pay for the service AND the download.  I'd never download a movie on iTunes for example, you pay whatever it is for the movie and then an extra few dollars for the data.

how big is a movie on itunes?  given that when you copy a DVD to your PC it can consume up to 8GB, how big would the downloads from an online provider be?  Obviously it would be pointless downloading them from an online 'fatso' if you were going to be crappy quality - you would be better off wth dvd's in the mail.  If the quality was good, but the size was huge - e.g. 8GB per movie - then you wouldnt make it far on your broadband cap and it just wouldnt be viable unless you have 'zero rated traffic'.  At full speed on an 8GB download would take from 3 or so hours (VDSL) to 20 minutes (VDSL).

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  # 229421 30-Jun-2009 07:43
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A dvd quality movie can be converted to 1.6GB using compression technology, which would be the likely move instead of streaming 'full' dvd's.

If you didnt mind downloading lots, a blueray full hd movie using h246 compression would comsume around 5-8GB.

If we wait a few more years, i bet the technology will get even better, i remember when the DIVX format for movies came out, man the quality was crap for an 800MB movie!! Now, i can watch an 800MB movie on my 42" Plasma and it looks almost fine- definatley watchable and if you sit 4m away from the tv, you cannot notice the difference between full dvd's and DIVX etc.

I personally think it is only a matter of time before we get a full service NZ movie streaming site, with full hd available- just wait for the technology to catch up.

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  # 229438 30-Jun-2009 08:45
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Interesting to see the herald article about sky giving up on the online service becoase of the internet cost issues that people have being experiancing.

Perhaps they are killing that to make way for something that fatso will be doing, since sky is a part owner of fatso (at least it was that way when I last looked into it)


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