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  # 249030 20-Aug-2009 13:55
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yeah HDMI cables don't make a difference with audio/video, but suspending the speaker cable so it doesn't touch the ground makes a huge difference! It doesn't looks quite as aesthetic, but it improves subjective fidelity by over 40%, amazing stuff....





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Subs: iNuke 3000dsp 3000W proamp with 4x 15" JBL Sealed Subs
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  # 249231 20-Aug-2009 22:33
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Sorry to go off topic but when you say to raise speaker cable off the ground are those wall clips just as good as your soloution :p
Any scientific reason for this btw?




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Home Theatre: 32" loewe CRT, Harmon kardon amp, dvd player, image 418 speakers, rega planar 25 turntable :)

 
 
 
 


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# 249235 20-Aug-2009 22:43
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Jaxson: Digital man, if it works it works, if it doesn't it doesn't. Things don't really fade out like the old analogue tv/cell phones etc. Try it and see really, if you have a problem then go for a better one in incremental $ steps or try an amplifier etc.


WRONG!!!!!

if you have a dodgy cable you can and likely will get picture problems.  commonly seen as blocking or pixelation - much like the rain-fade on a sky/freeview sat reception.  the reason this happens is because not all the bits arrive for the picture but the TV tries to display it with what it has received.

That doesnt mean that a $20 cable wont work just as well as a $299 cable though - just that some cables can give you problems.

Voice over IP is a similar scenario.  Your VoIP phone will turn the bits it receives into sound as it receives them.  Using UDP protocol, sometime the bits arrive out of order, sometimes they dont arrive at all. When this happens, you can hear garbled voice, voice that sounds like its computer synthesized or sometimes voice which chunks missing.  (TCP protocol retransmits if packets are not received correctly, this would result in a perfect voice conversation but there may be lots of pauses/holes if there are lots of retransmits). 




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  # 249239 20-Aug-2009 23:07
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I'm sorry Regs, but I don't think your analogy using sat reception applies here.

The OP is talking about a digital source going through a digital medium to a digital receiver. Satellite transmissions use a non-digital medium (the air/radio/whatever waves) to deliver the stream. Its unreliability (the rain/weather conditions) is what causes the pixelation or blocking. Dodgy ANALOG cables will indeed cause blocking or pixelation.

Digital cables either work or don't. Take fibre audio cables for example. Either the light will get there, or it won't. There's no 'shade' of light getting there.

This I'm basing on all the years of my dad (in the broadcast business for almost 50 years) telling me how digital TV on fibre works and etc.

EDIT: Turns out I'm completely wrong. Check below.




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  # 249240 20-Aug-2009 23:19
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magu: I'm sorry Regs, but I don't think your analogy using sat reception applies here.

The OP is talking about a digital source going through a digital medium to a digital receiver. Satellite transmissions use a non-digital medium (the air/radio/whatever waves) to deliver the stream. Its unreliability (the rain/weather conditions) is what causes the pixelation or blocking. Dodgy ANALOG cables will indeed cause blocking or pixelation.

Digital cables either work or don't. Take fibre audio cables for example. Either the light will get there, or it won't. There's no 'shade' of light getting there.

This I'm basing on all the years of my dad (in the broadcast business for almost 50 years) telling me how digital TV on fibre works and etc.

That's the not case here, in your example the light might intermittently get there - sometimes working, sometimes not and that could cause a number of problems.  Anyway, I think the main point with HDMI specifically (and digital in general) is that when there's a problem, there's an obvious problem.  Don't be worried that your cheapie cable isn't working as well as it could.  If you can't tell there's a problem, there's not.

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  # 249241 20-Aug-2009 23:29
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magu:

Digital cables either work or don't. Take fibre audio cables for example. Either the light will get there, or it won't. There's no 'shade' of light getting there.

This I'm basing on all the years of my dad (in the broadcast business for almost 50 years) telling me how digital TV on fibre works and etc.


you are wrong too sorry.  fire up google and search for the HDMI standard and see how it works.  there are 'shades' and signal degradation with HDMI - especially over longer cable runs.  If your dad is telling you that its 0's and 1's and it works or it doesnt, then perhaps he doesnt really know what HDMI is.




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  # 249266 21-Aug-2009 07:01
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I stand corrected, then.




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  # 249267 21-Aug-2009 07:05
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Googling around did return a very interesting article. Check numbers 3 and 4.




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  # 249315 21-Aug-2009 09:37
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Regs:
WRONG!!!!!

if you have a dodgy cable you can and likely will get picture problems.  commonly seen as blocking or pixelation - much like the rain-fade on a sky/freeview sat reception.  the reason this happens is because not all the bits arrive for the picture but the TV tries to display it with what it has received.

My experience has been more like Bazzer has described above.  If it works it works fine, if there is a problem it's glaringly obvious. 

I guess yes if your connection quality was boarderline then the picture may keep just hanging in there and be visible as consistant blocking/pixelation but it's still obvious at this stage.  Often though it's not going to hold this borderline state and it will either work ok but with intermitent pixelation every so often, or the screen will scroll/flash black/green etc and drop out whilst it tries to re sync.

The original points still hold though.  Try a cheap cable, if you experience any problems then try another better one, repeat until you're happy with a reliable picture.

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  # 249442 21-Aug-2009 14:57
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choose a cable that is as short distance as possible and get one thats thick so it wont bend too much.




HTPC: Intel i3-2100 / 12GB RAM / AMD HD7750 / 480 GB SSD / 58TB Storage / MediaPortal / MadVR / Win10
AVR: Pioneer Elite SC-LX87 220W 9.2 Ch AVR
Speakers: Wharfedale Jade 7 Fronts / Jade 2c Center / Jade 5 Rears
Subs: iNuke 3000dsp 3000W proamp with 4x 15" JBL Sealed Subs
Display: Samsung 60" UA60H6400 LCD TV
Accessories: Gefen HDMI Detective with splitter


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  # 249443 21-Aug-2009 14:59
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samwooff: Sorry to go off topic but when you say to raise speaker cable off the ground are those wall clips just as good as your soloution :p
Any scientific reason for this btw?


its more of a joke, could theoretically remove interference by removing the ground loop if there was a voltage differential.




HTPC: Intel i3-2100 / 12GB RAM / AMD HD7750 / 480 GB SSD / 58TB Storage / MediaPortal / MadVR / Win10
AVR: Pioneer Elite SC-LX87 220W 9.2 Ch AVR
Speakers: Wharfedale Jade 7 Fronts / Jade 2c Center / Jade 5 Rears
Subs: iNuke 3000dsp 3000W proamp with 4x 15" JBL Sealed Subs
Display: Samsung 60" UA60H6400 LCD TV
Accessories: Gefen HDMI Detective with splitter


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  # 249445 21-Aug-2009 15:03
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kiwijunglist:
samwooff: Sorry to go off topic but when you say to raise speaker cable off the ground are those wall clips just as good as your soloution :p
Any scientific reason for this btw?


its more of a joke, could theoretically remove interference by removing the ground loop if there was a voltage differential.


Isn't there some sort of filter you can use? I remember my dad doing filters for non-shielded reference studio monitors (aka. speakers) using capacitors and resistors and what-not.




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  # 249479 21-Aug-2009 16:26
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kiwijunglist:
samwooff: Sorry to go off topic but when you say to raise speaker cable off the ground are those wall clips just as good as your soloution :p
Any scientific reason for this btw?


its more of a joke, could theoretically remove interference by removing the ground loop if there was a voltage differential.


if you plug a laptop into an external screen and find that the image 'flickers' then one solution that often works is to cut off the earth pin from your powerpack (if it has one).  grounding can certainly cause interference, although i'm not sure how raising an insulated cable off the floor helps... unless maybeyou have underfloor heating? :p  I'm not saying its not true - it could be quite a valid conecpt, i've just never heard of it before.




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  # 249487 21-Aug-2009 16:54
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if you read audiophile forums (I did before i bought my last hifi) then you will come accross all sorts of crazy science and alchemy. Because it's so subjective no one can argue.

powersurge protectors can also help with ground interference.




HTPC: Intel i3-2100 / 12GB RAM / AMD HD7750 / 480 GB SSD / 58TB Storage / MediaPortal / MadVR / Win10
AVR: Pioneer Elite SC-LX87 220W 9.2 Ch AVR
Speakers: Wharfedale Jade 7 Fronts / Jade 2c Center / Jade 5 Rears
Subs: iNuke 3000dsp 3000W proamp with 4x 15" JBL Sealed Subs
Display: Samsung 60" UA60H6400 LCD TV
Accessories: Gefen HDMI Detective with splitter


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  # 249718 22-Aug-2009 19:16
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hahaha... audio can be so vague sometimes.




Desktop: i7 920, GTX 275, asus P6T, antec 1200, 6gb ram, 1tb spinpoint f1, 1tb spinpoint f3, Logitech Z2300, Zero DAC, Shure SRH440
Laptop: Toshiba satellite, T5300, Go 7300
Home Theatre: 32" loewe CRT, Harmon kardon amp, dvd player, image 418 speakers, rega planar 25 turntable :)

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