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  Reply # 264966 19-Oct-2009 08:20
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alasta: Do you seriously think that a manufacturer like Microsoft is going to leave their customers high and dry in a situation like that? Case in point - my G3 iBook died out of warranty a few years ago and Apple came to the party without any objection. As a result Apple have retained my ongoing business in the years that followed, meaning that a mutually beneficial resolution was able to take place without resorting to throwing the book at them.


It sounds a bit like my dealing with Samsung, no fuss, brand new replacement set despite being two years outside of warranty and all achieved without 'throwing the book'.

The real question is would the resellers/distributors be so forthcoming if there was not a consumer safeguard in place?

I would suspect most people whom have resolved an issue have done so outside of a legal CGA dispute, in most probability Apple knew your ibook died prematurely and that if the matter became legal they would lose so provided the most likely outcome without any fuss most likely thanks to the CGA ;)

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  Reply # 264971 19-Oct-2009 08:40
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RustyGonad: Some other examples for you to consider - XBox 360 first generation (yes I've got one, and two others that won't break), 54% worldwide failure rate, once again - where's the consumer choice you advocate???
It has been said that every single first gen console will fail - its simply a matter of time.  Consumer choice???  How could someone have been a "smart consumer" here???  Please give us all some suggestions...


Clearly a 'smart consumer' here would have bought a PS3.  That said I have both and a Wii, though I won the Xbox360....

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 265608 21-Oct-2009 11:39
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Alasta - the cost of warranties is ultimately borne by the manufactur via the distributor in some cases - you need to get a better understanding of commericial supply chains. Warranty programs are in place with every major manufacturer. Rebate programs and claimback facility ensure this cost is passed back to the rightful owner ie the manufacturer. Any retail outlet who fails to utilise this mechanism won't be in business for long.

FACT - Microsoft have left every first gen console owner "high and dry" after 3 years - they expect you to pay for repairs after this period. The cost of these repairs is currently 2/3rds the cost of a replacement console, repairs are temporary and simply delay the issue from reoccurring. Many people who bought these console aimed to have them for more than 3 years. Luckily these consumers have recourse under the CGA. Have a look at the number of RROD console floating around on trademe... Ripped open by poor people who don't understand their rights.

You have still failed to detail any quantifiable and measurable benefit of extended warranties. You sound like one of their brochures, or a manager from a retail outlet. I don't discount your right to burn money on them - but why push this on other unsuspecting punters if you can't even quantify the benefits without diverting the converstation? Your just like an idiot who sells them - constantly moving the converstation around even though you don't have a point...

Alasta/Clevedon RE Samsung - go peel the lid of any electronic item you have (including Apple gear). Better than even odds that it will have pieces of Samsung all the way through it. They are also one of the top 3 TV makers worldwide (No1 last time I checked - this may have changed), and one of the largest panel makers in the world, and have stategic production partnerships with Sony and most of the others (good chance your looking at one of their panels somewhere in your life - you may even have one in your house without even knowing it). Your using their gear - like it or not... So in your own eyes you've bought crap I guess... Not very smart guys... Its not 20 years ago - the world has changed... Technology moves - your dated opinions need to as well.

Paulthagerous - Wow - someone who's actually got a PS3 - your the first person I've seen who actually admitted it :) I could have gone either way, but I saved $600 and bought the 360 - the other two I've got get used as extenders... which the PS3 kinda sucks at... The PS3 is a nice console being marketed by a company who has severly lost thier way - sales until the price drop reflected exactly that...


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  Reply # 265633 21-Oct-2009 13:01
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RustyGonad: Alasta/Clevedon RE Samsung - go peel the lid of any electronic item you have (including Apple gear). Better than even odds that it will have pieces of Samsung all the way through it. They are also one of the top 3 TV makers worldwide (No1 last time I checked - this may have changed), and one of the largest panel makers in the world, and have stategic production partnerships with Sony and most of the others (good chance your looking at one of their panels somewhere in your life - you may even have one in your house without even knowing it). Your using their gear - like it or not... So in your own eyes you've bought crap I guess... Not very smart guys... Its not 20 years ago - the world has changed... Technology moves - your dated opinions need to as well.


Some of my gear might have a couple of bits in them from Samsung but are not badged or built by Samsung. My three recently new Panasonic panels were all made in Japan - I checked before purchashing. My trade is Automotive repair and I would never buy a vehicle from Korea or any where near there and yes other makes and models probably have bits from that region in them but I'd be dead before I'd buy a Hyundai, Daewoo or Ssangyong. Saw an item on the news showing the Samsung panel production line and it showed how the machine literally bounced up the panels from horizontal to vertical just before putting them in the cardboard carton you buy them in - would you treat your panel like that? Sorry, just see and hear too many failure stories of products from that part of the world to touch one of their branded products. Had Panasonic/Technics electronics for over 27 years - never, ever had a problem, just upgraded them as technology changes.

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  Reply # 265672 21-Oct-2009 14:24
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Its a bit like saying your a vego but you like the taste of meat... as long as its mixed in with vegetables.

Panasonic is one of the many companies that has stategic partnerships with Samsung - wonder what kind of fish and silicon chips it has in it :). Didn't really know they had any fanboys... But I guess old people can be fanboys too...

Don't know where the cars came into it. Personally I drive a Holden. Its got a V8 in the front (which was made it Canada, by a bunch on mexicans), its probably got plenty of bits in it from both Japan, and Korea. It was slapped together by a bunch of arm draggers in South Australia. The only thing green about it is some of them come in that colour - But really I don't care... I strongly believe the only good thing to come it two litres is a bottle of milk (or an oversize bottle of bourbon). If I had to explain you wouldn't understand...

Fact is most cars/electronics being will have peices out of the region you so detest. I am simply not that blind/arrogant or stupid to even care... The world is a big place, it changes alot, what was good yesterday may not be good tommorow. I'd learn to build a bridge...

BTW - There are even better ways to watch Sky HD than MySky HDi as well... :)


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  Reply # 265681 21-Oct-2009 14:37
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RustyGonad: ... But I guess old people can be fanboys too...


Didn't know 42 was that old
Oh well, you do what you do - and I won't
PS - Most people get Sky HD the legal way  around here.


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  Reply # 265711 21-Oct-2009 15:51
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clevedon: Some of my gear might have a couple of bits in them from Samsung but are not badged or built by Samsung. My three recently new Panasonic panels were all made in Japan - I checked before purchashing. My trade is Automotive repair and I would never buy a vehicle from Korea or any where near there and yes other makes and models probably have bits from that region in them but I'd be dead before I'd buy a Hyundai, Daewoo or Ssangyong. Saw an item on the news showing the Samsung panel production line and it showed how the machine literally bounced up the panels from horizontal to vertical just before putting them in the cardboard carton you buy them in - would you treat your panel like that? Sorry, just see and hear too many failure stories of products from that part of the world to touch one of their branded products. Had Panasonic/Technics electronics for over 27 years - never, ever had a problem, just upgraded them as technology changes.


You are rubbishing the whole country based on seeing what you though was a rough panel production line? Amazing....though you are of course entitles to your own opinions.

For the record, my new Panasonic plasma is made in China (I know the panel plant is in Japan). Panasonic build Plasma TVs for the states in Mexico. My Samsung LCD is made in Malaysia.  So what. Panasonic build/assemble quite a lot of product outside of Japan.

I wouldnt toss a sheet of glass around because I would break it - but if you see a glazer they can sheets of glass surprisingly well. If they have a plant that bounces them its probably ok - Faults cost them money and production lines have a great deal of money spent on them to reduce faults/breakages.

I had a Hyundai car - it was very good. Hyundai have done increasingly well in reliability surveys over the years. Just have a look here (True Daewoo and Ssangyong have had issues):

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/quality-ratings-by-brand and http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/dependability-ratings-by-brand

Hyundai rate better than the 'prestige' german cars.

I am old enough to remember people unjustly rubbishing all Japanese products in the 70s as well - doesnt tend to happen now.

 




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  Reply # 265718 21-Oct-2009 16:15
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robjg63: You are rubbishing the whole country based on seeing what you though was a rough panel production line? Amazing....though you are of course entitles to your own opinions.

For the record, my new Panasonic plasma is made in China (I know the panel plant is in Japan). Panasonic build Plasma TVs for the states in Mexico. My Samsung LCD is made in Malaysia.  So what. Panasonic build/assemble quite a lot of product outside of Japan.

I wouldnt toss a sheet of glass around because I would break it - but if you see a glazer they can sheets of glass surprisingly well. If they have a plant that bounces them its probably ok - Faults cost them money and production lines have a great deal of money spent on them to reduce faults/breakages.

I had a Hyundai car - it was very good. Hyundai have done increasingly well in reliability surveys over the years. Just have a look here (True Daewoo and Ssangyong have had issues):

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/quality-ratings-by-brand and http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/dependability-ratings-by-brand

Hyundai rate better than the 'prestige' german cars.

I am old enough to remember people unjustly rubbishing all Japanese products in the 70s as well - doesnt tend to happen now.


You might want to read what I said again. I didn't rubbish the whole country because of ONLY what I saw on the production line, I said I would not buy those branded products from what I have seen (in my workshop ) and from what I have read ( in numerous forums of the failure rates of their appliances ) Never had a failure from Panasonic myself, so why would I buy anything else other than if they didn't produce something I wanted?

I still have never brought a extended warranty - but if I HAD to buy Samsung, I surely would take one out.


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  Reply # 265786 21-Oct-2009 20:35
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Too many broad sweeping generalisations being made imo...

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  Reply # 265799 21-Oct-2009 21:08
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RustyGonad: Alasta - the cost of warranties is ultimately borne by the manufactur via the distributor in some cases - you need to get a better understanding of commericial supply chains. Warranty programs are in place with every major manufacturer. Rebate programs and claimback facility ensure this cost is passed back to the rightful owner ie the manufacturer. Any retail outlet who fails to utilise this mechanism won't be in business for long.



There is a contract of supply between the end user and the retailer, and another contract of supply between the retailer and the distributor. So what? These are all privately negotiated contracts which should not be overruled by legislation unless the goods being traded are illegal.





You have still failed to detail any quantifiable and measurable benefit of extended warranties. You sound like one of their brochures, or a manager from a retail outlet. I don't discount your right to burn money on them - but why push this on other unsuspecting punters if you can't even quantify the benefits without diverting the converstation? Your just like an idiot who sells them - constantly moving the converstation around even though you don't have a point...



You obviously didn't read my last post. I explicitly stated that I am indifferent about the costs and benefits of extended warranties but I have no problem with them being offered as consumers should be able to judge them on their merits without being called "idiots" who "throw their money away" and other such mud slinging that seems to go around on techie forums like this when the words "extended warranty" are uttered.





Alasta/Clevedon RE Samsung - go peel the lid of any electronic item you have (including Apple gear). Better than even odds that it will have pieces of Samsung all the way through it. They are also one of the top 3 TV makers worldwide (No1 last time I checked - this may have changed), and one of the largest panel makers in the world, and have stategic production partnerships with Sony and most of the others (good chance your looking at one of their panels somewhere in your life - you may even have one in your house without even knowing it). Your using their gear - like it or not... So in your own eyes you've bought crap I guess... Not very smart guys... Its not 20 years ago - the world has changed... Technology moves - your dated opinions need to as well.



You're right of course, but despite some great technological advances over the last 20 years I happen to believe that electronic devices were built to a much higher standard back in the day when their semiconductors wore NEC and Philips logos. Unfortunately the throwaway society seems to be what the world wants so that's what manufacturers have to deliver.

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  Reply # 265852 21-Oct-2009 22:33
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RustyGonad:

You have still failed to detail any quantifiable and measurable benefit of extended warranties. You sound like one of their brochures, or a manager from a retail outlet. I don't discount your right to burn money on them - but why push this on other unsuspecting punters if you can't even quantify the benefits without diverting the converstation? Your just like an idiot who sells them - constantly moving the converstation around even though you don't have a point...


normally i wouldnt bother taking extended warranties..... and i personally wouldnt see the need to take one for a television, but i'm looking at buying a digital SLR camera and the extended warranty offers the following additional cover items which is quite appealing to me:
- Normal wear and tear is covered (even when excluded by the manufacturer’s warranty).
- There are No Excess amounts payable on each claim
- Multiple claims are allowed

The claims excess for my existing H&C insurance is $200 and it doesnt cover wear and tear.  If i drop the camera and for example, crack the case - i would be covered under my existing insurance, but would incur the excess each time i made a claim.  If the repair cost less than $200 there would be no point in claiming under insurance.  If i didnt bother repairing the cracked case could lead to further problems with moisture or grit which would then not necessarily be covered by regular H&C insurance.  Given that the starting price for the extended warranty is less than $200 and, by all accounts, negotiable, then its looking like an option i might look at taking.





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  Reply # 265854 21-Oct-2009 22:40
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clevedon:
alasta: Samsung products are of relatively poor quality and would not buy them personally, CGA or no CGA.


I'd agree with that as well.


i'd certainly disagree with that statement.  I've had plenty of samsung products - plasma tv, lcd screens, hard disk drives, memory dimms, refrigerator, and more - and had no problems whatsoever.  In fact, i believe that for many things samsung provides excellent value for money and they make some extremely good looking products.  Perhaps they make some crappy low-end stuff - many brands do.  How much experience have each of you had with Samsung products?




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  Reply # 265862 21-Oct-2009 22:56
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I would sooner take samsung over a sony for anything after grief with their nugent street dis-service center.





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  Reply # 265876 21-Oct-2009 23:19
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alasta: You're right of course, but despite some great technological advances over the last 20 years I happen to believe that electronic devices were built to a much higher standard back in the day when their semiconductors wore NEC and Philips logos. Unfortunately the throwaway society seems to be what the world wants so that's what manufacturers have to deliver.


A quote from consumer.org.nz on TV brand reliability states the following:
"Philips has been the lowest-ranked brand since 2006 (Philips is no longer making TVs)."
(Samsung appears to be next in line in the worst performing, and Panasonic made it to the list of most reliable)

Note- they also state that only 5% of some 4000 tvs in the sample up to 5 years old even needed repairs....




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  Reply # 266050 22-Oct-2009 12:37
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alasta:

There is a contract of supply between the end user and the retailer, and another contract of supply between the retailer and the distributor. So what? These are all privately negotiated contracts which should not be overruled by legislation unless the goods being traded are illegal.



Yeah that would be great if every consumer was an expert on every item being sold with perfect information about the manufacture and quality of the item

Personally I think it would be huge pain to have to worry about negotiating a warranty period every time I bought something.

I think the CGA provides sensible baseline protection.




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