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699 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 289538 13-Jan-2010 09:39
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Mrflower - if I may come back to your original question and try to provide a bit more information as it seems this thread is heading down the route of loads of information but its starting to conflict.

 

You said you were setting up a home theatre system. Home theatre is essentially about setting up a 5.1 system (most DVD's and Freeview on TV3 is 5.1) or a 7.1 system. Since you have a limited budget let’s put the 7.1 aside to save you the cost of 2 extra speakers.

 

5.1 means that on, say a 5.1 DVD, sound is mixed so that unique information is sent to each of the five speakers individually. By hearing all 5 at once you get a more engaged sense of the movie. (Oh - and I was with you with listening to music with my eyes closed - but last night for example I was listening and watching on wide screen David Gilmour Live at the Albert on a 5.1 DVD - wonderful!)

 

So imagine a music scene in a DVD with a drum kit to the left of stage, lead singer and guitar at centre stage and backup vocals on the right. With a 5.1 home theatre you will see and hear the drums and associated percussion coming mainly from your left speaker and a little in your centre speaker. Your lead vocals and guitar will come mainly from your centre speaker (and a little in your left and rights) and your backup vocal will come mainly from your right speaker and a little from your centre.

 

If you are at a real live music concert not all your sound comes off the front stage as you get reflections around the concert hall - in a 5.1 Home theatre these will be what comes through in your rear speakers. When an audience claps you will get this through all speakers as a person in an audience is usually surrounded by the rest of the audience.

 

So that your speakers don't get over loaded with information the low bass sound (the LFE track) gets diverted to the subwoofer. So, for example when the Bass drum is hit this sound will mostly go, not to your left speaker, but to your subwoofer - leaving your left speaker to better handle the Snare Drum and Crash Cymbal.

 

So where I am I leading to - essentially if you want home theatre you need five + 1 speakers.

 

Some Home theatre is set up using the "Phantom Centre" method but in my view this doesn't work as optimally as a true centre. A Phantom is where you only have a left and right speaker and you tell your AV receiver to route the Centre speaker information to the left and right speakers in such a way as it "seems" that you actually have a centre. In reality all you are doing is fiddling with the sound which ultimately results in something the Producers didn't intend. You also tend to loose the effect if you aren't sitting dead centre between your speakers and if several people are watching the movie those to the left and right will have a different experience as they will be closer to either the left or right speaker - destroying the "Phantom"

 

You could of course just get your 2 speakers and amp and set your DVD's to play in 2 channel mode - but if you are doing this you are, IMO opinion setting up a stereo and not Home Theatre.

 

So how do we spend your money?

 

How about $900 on this Marantz http://www.trademe.co.nz/Electronics-photography/Home-audio/Amplifiers-tuners/auction-263401633.htm

or this onkyo http://www.trademe.co.nz/Electronics-photography/Home-audio/Amplifiers-tuners/auction-264108849.htm

 

 

What about $1000 for these KEFS (not a fan myself but you'll get the idea) http://www.trademe.co.nz/Electronics-photography/Home-audio/Speakers-and-stands/Home-theatre-sets/auction-264141638.htm

 

 

Or for $1000 get this pair of floor standees http://www.paulmoney.co.nz/shop/speakers/floorstanding/mission-m64i-floorstanding-spe

 

 plus $500 for this centre: http://www.paulmoney.co.nz/shop/speakers/centre/mission-m6ci-centre-speaker

 

Plus $450 for these as rears http://www.paulmoney.co.nz/shop/speakers/bookshelf/mission-m30i-bookshelf-speaker.

 

and $900 for a sub http://www.paulmoney.co.nz/shop/subwoofers/velodyne-cht10r-subwoofer

 

 

That leaves you around $1,200.

 

So $400 for this personal favourite for great DVD over HDMI, CD and SACD: http://www.rapalloav.co.nz/product/244/Oppo-Blu-ray-Players/

 

 

and $229 for a Feeview box: http://www.dse.co.nz/dse.shop/4b4cdce803246a84273fc0a87f3b06e5/Product/View/G7503

 

 

and you still have change!

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  Reply # 289553 13-Jan-2010 10:16
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the receivers dont to uncompressed sound decoding (ie True-HD, DTS-HD MA)
the dvd player doesnt play bluray.
does his TV not receive freeview?

i have no experience with the KEFs
my friend has mission speakers - it's poorly setup so i wont comment apart from them being canadian

i can vouch for the velodyne - but that's the last thing i'll buy.

are you in chch by any chance? you could audition my $2500 setup and see what you think.

 
 
 
 


699 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 105


  Reply # 289561 13-Jan-2010 10:41
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joker97: the receivers dont to uncompressed sound decoding (ie True-HD, DTS-HD MA)
the dvd player doesnt play bluray.
does his TV not receive freeview?

i have no experience with the KEFs
my friend has mission speakers - it's poorly setup so i wont comment apart from them being canadian

i can vouch for the velodyne - but that's the last thing i'll buy.

are you in chch by any chance? you could audition my $2500 setup and see what you think.


Oops - my list wasn't meant as a recommendation - just an indication of what you can get for $5,000 and to show you can get 5.1 for this budget rather than settle for 2.0 when trying to set up a Home Theatre. I'd hope that Mrflower would go and do his own research and auditions - but he should get change from $5,000

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  Reply # 289567 13-Jan-2010 10:50
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minimoke: Oops - my list wasn't meant as a recommendation - just an indication of what you can get for $5,000 and to show you can get 5.1 for this budget rather than settle for 2.0 when trying to set up a Home Theatre. I'd hope that Mrflower would go and do his own research and auditions - but he should get change from $5,000


i just thought i'd feedback on the list sorry.
i agree you dont need to buy the most expensive everything.
mine setup is budget as and nothing wrong with it. it use it for 60% music. did months and months of research though, and a few buy-and-sells!

699 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 105


  Reply # 289573 13-Jan-2010 11:06
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joker97:
minimoke: Oops - my list wasn't meant as a recommendation - just an indication of what you can get for $5,000 and to show you can get 5.1 for this budget rather than settle for 2.0 when trying to set up a Home Theatre. I'd hope that Mrflower would go and do his own research and auditions - but he should get change from $5,000

mine setup is budget as and nothing wrong with it.

Absolutley agree!. I've seen some big money spent by people who have been suckered by the sales person, spending way over the odds for somethign they just don't appreciate. One of may personal favourites is the person who bought a $6,000 wide screen but not $300 on a freview HD box and "stretching" the analogue picture to fit the screen - needless to say there is no blu ray player attached either!. And lets not get started on "The Brand That Shall Not Be Named"!

I think it would be a shame for Mrflower to buy a HT out of a box after buying a telly like he has - it deserves a decent 5 speaker and sub system and he can well achieve this with his budget

(ps - not sure I'm with you with the Sonus Fabers. The Sugden / Living Voice at last years expo was my favourite!)

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  Reply # 289581 13-Jan-2010 11:34
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i havent heard the sugden / living voice so i cant comment.
a wishlist is just that - something that is impossible to attain.

also - people with money can buy whatever they want and feel good on their retail therapy. someone like me - bang for buck! therapy is in other things!



68 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 289630 13-Jan-2010 13:49
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Hi Guys.

Thanks for the feedback and discussion, I learn alot from this...

Paul Money is having a Denon/Misson bundle sale, includes the following

Denon 2809 receiver
Denon 1740 DVD player
Mission M64i front
Mission M6ci centre
Mission M60i rear
Mission M6AS sub.

they ask for $5000(rrp $9700)... worth the money or no?

I know I have to spend at least another $500 on the cables/surge protector if I buy them off the shelf.

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  Reply # 289636 13-Jan-2010 14:12
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i'd say he can do better. he's selling them even cheaper on trademe!

mission speakers have good clarity but nothing spectacular, and no character, but i think the price is for good build (ie not made in china? also is it real wood or fake?) but i may be wrong. having said that, sound is very subjective! what i like may not be what other people like!

keep the denon amp.
ask for a bluray player - say jbhifi selling panasonic bd-60 for $366
ask for ... erm wharfedale evo fronts and centre!

just see what he says

699 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 105


  Reply # 289637 13-Jan-2010 14:14
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joker97:

i just thought i'd feedback on the list sorry.
!


OK - shall we have some fun spending someone elses money?

So he has freeview box in his TV freeing up a bit of cash.

Lets Say Mrflower has $5,000 total and we put $1500 aside for an AV reciever - what can we get him.
(if you spend more its got to come off the other components)

How about I start the ball rolling with the Yamaha RX V665 for $1,400 (Paul Moeny)

Its got the Dolby TrueHD for the Blue Ray player; 4 in 1 out 1080p HDMI; Burr Brown DAC's and Pure Direct (for Mrflowers music). Plus multi channel analogue input and 2 channel analogue output - again for the music.

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  Reply # 289643 13-Jan-2010 14:27
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RXV 665 for $1400 is a SCORE. very good receiver that one - no blemish. no fine prints. go for it. that was what i wanted to get for that price from HN but they declined (wanted $2100) so i got meself the denon that i have.



68 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 289644 13-Jan-2010 14:28
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joker97: i'd say he can do better. he's selling them even cheaper on trademe!

mission speakers have good clarity but nothing spectacular, and no character, but i think the price is for good build (ie not made in china? also is it real wood or fake?) but i may be wrong. having said that, sound is very subjective! what i like may not be what other people like!

keep the denon amp.
ask for a bluray player - say jbhifi selling panasonic bd-60 for $366
ask for ... erm wharfedale evo fronts and centre!

just see what he says


My thought exactly.. the amp is good but the speaker doesnt seem to be as good or just too plain??

I used to own a pair of Paradigm Monitor V4(last of the canadian made). really great speakers

bought them for 1000 and then sold for 1500 after 6 months...

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  Reply # 289645 13-Jan-2010 14:32
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revision:

get rxv 665 for $1400.
ask for wharfedale evo fronts and center
ask for a bluray player
get whatever sub and rear you want or he wants to offer (really these are the small fry that are there to make the numbers/effect unless you are a cinema movie reviewer/critique)

699 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 289649 13-Jan-2010 14:38
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MrFlower: Hi Guys.

Thanks for the feedback and discussion, I learn alot from this...

Paul Money is having a Denon/Misson bundle sale, includes the following

Denon 2809 receiver
Denon 1740 DVD player
Mission M64i front
Mission M6ci centre
Mission M60i rear
Mission M6AS sub.

they ask for $5000(rrp $9700)... worth the money or no?

I know I have to spend at least another $500 on the cables/surge protector if I buy them off the shelf.

Agree with Joker - he can do better and so can you.

Personally I'm a bit wary of buying bundled product.

Secondly you need to audition - take along your favourite CD and DVD and ask for a trial but don't let the sales person spin the usual bulls**t.

Thirdly under no circumstances spend $500 on cable (I assume he's trying to sell you some monster cable). 10 - 14 gauge decent copper wire for the 5 speakers; an HDMI from your AV to TV; HDMI from Blue Ray to AV; Compoent from AV to TV (in case your amp doesn't send the User Interface via HDMI to the TV. And you'll need a bunch of audio cables to connect any analogue sources (say a SACD player) perhaps to the amp. Oh and a cable for the sub.

As for his list - I think I'd go for the Yamaha over the Denon amp. The Denon has the Faroudja chip set which is arguably better for video - but you are after money spent on audio.

As for the speakers - beware RRP price vs "Special" Price. You can get, for example, the M60i's for $500 pretty much anywhere so not really saving (they are good wee speakers - I had a pair as rears a while back). I'd probably fg for his Velodyne sub over the Mission - but would need to audition.

699 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 105


  Reply # 289662 13-Jan-2010 15:00
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My thought exactly.. the amp is good but the speaker doesnt seem to be as good or just too plain??

I used to own a pair of Paradigm Monitor V4(last of the canadian made). really great speakers



OK How about we go with a bit of home grown. A pair of Image Studio reference for around $1300 (http://totallywired.co.nz/image-400series.html ) matched with an Image AVC200 centre for around $800. Thats $3,500 of the budget spent.
What about a pair of bookselfs for the rears at $400 and a sub off trade me for $600 leaving $400 for a Panasonic Blu Ray Player and $100 for cable (someone will throw in a cheap HDMI cable and audio somewhere along the way)



68 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 289673 13-Jan-2010 15:21
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minimoke:
MrFlower: Hi Guys.

Thanks for the feedback and discussion, I learn alot from this...

Paul Money is having a Denon/Misson bundle sale, includes the following

Denon 2809 receiver
Denon 1740 DVD player
Mission M64i front
Mission M6ci centre
Mission M60i rear
Mission M6AS sub.

they ask for $5000(rrp $9700)... worth the money or no?

I know I have to spend at least another $500 on the cables/surge protector if I buy them off the shelf.

Agree with Joker - he can do better and so can you.

Personally I'm a bit wary of buying bundled product.

Secondly you need to audition - take along your favourite CD and DVD and ask for a trial but don't let the sales person spin the usual bulls**t.

Thirdly under no circumstances spend $500 on cable (I assume he's trying to sell you some monster cable). 10 - 14 gauge decent copper wire for the 5 speakers; an HDMI from your AV to TV; HDMI from Blue Ray to AV; Compoent from AV to TV (in case your amp doesn't send the User Interface via HDMI to the TV. And you'll need a bunch of audio cables to connect any analogue sources (say a SACD player) perhaps to the amp. Oh and a cable for the sub.

As for his list - I think I'd go for the Yamaha over the Denon amp. The Denon has the Faroudja chip set which is arguably better for video - but you are after money spent on audio.

As for the speakers - beware RRP price vs "Special" Price. You can get, for example, the M60i's for $500 pretty much anywhere so not really saving (they are good wee speakers - I had a pair as rears a while back). I'd probably fg for his Velodyne sub over the Mission - but would need to audition.


had a quick search, Evo 2 floor standing is at least $3000 without promotion/discount... or are you talking about bookshelf?

what about comparing pioneer's LX70/71/72 with Yamaha's AV receiver?

if Yamaha is slightly better than Denon for sound handling, then is Pioneer any better in handling the sound than Yamaha?


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