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495 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  #307394 15-Mar-2010 14:16
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I think there seems to be a bit of a distinction between what is "personal use" and publication. Believe me, if Sky encrypt the guide on EIT, or make it any harder than it is, I will cancel my subscription that same day.

To the best of my knowledge they're not out there sending C&D notifications to individual users.

There is a pretty distinct separation once you start publication - for example (and this isn't directed at any of the guide hosters BTW), what if they slip a small ad on the website, which hosts the guide? Is that still public good, or is it personal gain?

What if someone requests donations to help "scrape" the guide, which starts at a few bucks, but turns into a few thousand? Is that commercial gain?

What if Tivo write a script pointing to one of the "free" hosted services to grab the Prime guide, could you then argue that they not doing anything legally wrong?

To the best of my knowledge none of the hosted guides have done so with the permission of Sky (I don't believe you'd get permission anyway, but maybe its something that needs to be investigated). If your going to host something without permission, then you can't expect any degree or permanance in doing this, especially when it becomes widely broadcast on a national forum such as this.

Just because its internet based, and readily available it doesn't mean its exempt from copyright. For example lets say your subscribe to the Herald, once you get it, you copy it a thousand times, and give it out for free (it must be ok, cause your not making any money out of it, and everyone can read it online)... How long would you last?




272 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  #307397 15-Mar-2010 14:35
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natto:
dauckland: Hi there.

I realized today that the EPG NZ wasn't working, thanks SKY

I use EyeTV and like to get my EPG using XML rather than DVB
I managed to write a small toll that grabs listings for al freeview channels and converts it into XMLTV format.
I have posted the latest 7 day EPG at http://files.me.com/cmsmiths/eesmju (ZIPped)

I will get this updated every day under the same link and try to get a proper site going in the long run
Hope this helps some of you.

D


Works good for me. However, I tried to change the info in my script to download it automatically and it doesn't work anymore... Any help there for someone who doesn't know what half of you are talking about?


It was a first attempt at writing it last night, so I'm expanding it now.
Will add colours to eyeTV EPG
Will also convert it to a different URL with both plain text and gz/zip file, which will work for auto-scripts

D

 
 
 
 


195 posts

Master Geek


  #307399 15-Mar-2010 14:41
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I expect there is no coincidence in the timing with this analogue switch off:

http://business.scoop.co.nz/2010/03/10/sky-to-shut-down-uhf-network/

3312 posts

Uber Geek


  #307402 15-Mar-2010 14:46
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Isn't NZ one of the only countries where the broadcasters are so protective of their EPG data?
Why is that?


29133 posts

Uber Geek

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Biddle Corp
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  #307408 15-Mar-2010 15:03
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Hinko: I expect there is no coincidence in the timing with this analogue switch off:

http://business.scoop.co.nz/2010/03/10/sky-to-shut-down-uhf-network/


What does it have to do with it?

195 posts

Master Geek


  #307409 15-Mar-2010 15:10
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sbiddle:
Hinko: I expect there is no coincidence in the timing with this analogue switch off:

http://business.scoop.co.nz/2010/03/10/sky-to-shut-down-uhf-network/


What does it have to do with it?


Possibly a management perception of moving forward by closing "holes" perceived to exist in the operation. 

However its also relevant to consider that Sky may in part also be the messenger here, and that they may be doing what their suppliers may be demanding of them.

40 posts

Geek


  #307411 15-Mar-2010 15:26
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sbiddle:
...I agree totally that it's IP owned by the broadcaster.


Is it though? I don't know where NZ law stands on the issue, but I'm pretty sure that in the US at least, copyright law does not protect data, or even ideas, only expression. Things like EPGs and phone directories are not considered IP there. However, that principal did have to be established by the courts; maybe there hasn't been an equivalent precedent set here yet?


 
 
 
 


391 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  #307413 15-Mar-2010 15:30
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Plasmadog:
Is it though? I don't know where NZ law stands on the issue, but I'm pretty sure that in the US at least, copyright law does not protect data, or even ideas, only expression. Things like EPGs and phone directories are not considered IP there. However, that principal did have to be established by the courts; maybe there hasn't been an equivalent precedent set here yet?



There hasn't been a precedent set here yet but there has in the US as you mention. There also has in Australia with both IceTV and the whitepages. NZ law is apparently similar to Australia in this area so it would be interesting to see a case.




4025 posts

Uber Geek

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  #307415 15-Mar-2010 15:40
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Whoops sorry about that. Didnt compile from SVN, it was a quick compile when i was browsing

Heres a new build done from source. Files you're after are in /binaries.
Once again, .net 2.0. 7zip archive.

http://www.surf-infamous.com/downloads/mheg2xmltv-15.3.2010.7z

Like with most SVN builds, use at your own risk etc, because i cant test this, i just built it from svn.

reading through the sourcecode, theres bits commented out about about Unix/Windows specific support for channels.conf, as well as DSM-CC Speaking of which this program doesnt work for me at all, it thinks my HVR-2200 doesnt exist.
The data it spits out seems to contain

start time
stop time
channel
title
sub-title
description
rating (with support for icons)
subtitles (with ear icon)
HD broadcast (HD icon)



5334 posts

Uber Geek

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  #307432 15-Mar-2010 16:15
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sbiddle: .. I watch more TV with my PVR now than I ever did before. I can see what's on and schedule shows. With no EPG I'd probably just ignore a lot of stuff. It would be the broadcaster's loss and not mine...


Well actually with a PVR while you might watch more TV, you are probably watching fewer ads!  And that's where part of their revenue comes from. For Sky, unless your watching more TV means subscribing to more channels, then it doesn't really help them.

But then I agree - with a good epg you watch more stuff (live or delayed) since you are able to schedule your viewing in advance.




Staying in Wellington. Check out my AirBnB in the Wellington CBD.  https://www.airbnb.co.nz/rooms/32019730  Mention GZ to get a 10% discount

 

System One: Popcorn Hour A200,  PS3 SuperSlim, NPVR and Plex Server running on Gigabyte Brix (Windows 10 Pro), Sony BDP-S390 BD player, Pioneer AVR, Raspberry Pi running Kodi and Plex, Panasonic 60" 3D plasma, Google Chromecast

System Two: Popcorn Hour A200 ,  Oppo BDP-80 BluRay Player with hardware mode to be region free, Vivitek HD1080P 1080P DLP projector with 100" screen, Denon AVRS730H 7.2 Channel Dolby Atmos/DTS-X AV Receiver, Samsung 4K player, Google Chromecast, Odroid C2 running Kodi and Plex

 

 


216 posts

Master Geek


  #307436 15-Mar-2010 16:39
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There may be  a legal distinction between the fact that the Simpsons are on at 5.00 pm (pure fact, like a name and phone number in the whitepages) on the one hand and the fact that the episode has this story line: "Conditions at the Elementary school have become so bad that the teachers go on strike forcing Bart and Lisa to stay at home.". Someone sits down and writes those blurbs. That blurb MAY be copyrightable, the pure fact of the broadcast time likely isn't. It's a complex area of law.

The C&D letters were also based on breach of Sky's trademark, and breach of the Fair Trading Act.

And to those that suggest the EPG might get encrypted, that would be a breach of the DVB standard as far as I know.

Anyone interested in the Oz cases, see here:

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/cth/HCA/2009/14.html

IceTV Pty Limited v Nine Network Australia Pty Limited (TV listings)

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/cth/FCA/2010/44.html

Telstra Corporation Limited v Phone Directories Company Pty Ltd (phone books)

30 posts

Geek


#307437 15-Mar-2010 16:42
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to eXDee

Using your dcdvbsource I get further than the previous Binary with my HVR-2200
running your dcdvbsource to a input.dvb and playing that via WMP results in

MHPData\TV ONE,MHPData\PRIME etc directories and data structure are  created
but
EPG.data file is created in \EPGData but mheg2xmltv.exe looks in \epg\data

moving the file to there gives

D:\DOWNLOAD\TV\EPG\xml2mheg-2>mheg2xmltv.exe input.dvb output.xml
Error: An exception occured: Could not find a part of the path 'D:\DOWNLOAD\TV\EPG\xml2mheg-2\input.dvb\epg\data'.

So something else is still not quite right

excellent work so far though

216 posts

Master Geek


  #307439 15-Mar-2010 16:48
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CYaBro: Isn't NZ one of the only countries where the broadcasters are so protective of their EPG data?
Why is that?



not necessarily. In the US mythtv users pay for their annual data.

352 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #307448 15-Mar-2010 17:03
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RustyGonad: For example lets say your subscribe to the Herald, once you get it, you copy it a thousand times, and give it out for free (it must be ok, cause your not making any money out of it, and everyone can read it online)


While I agree with everything else you wrote, I find this a not so good example.

If we use the Herald as an example, it would be more like us distributing their publication times, a list of the headlines, the journalist's name and which section of the newspaper it was, but not the story content itself.

Now that I've written that, an example I'm emotionally disconnected from, I think they might have a point.

I'd like it if a TVGuide-like company provided a $1/wk subscription to download a 14 day epg.

29133 posts

Uber Geek

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Biddle Corp
Lifetime subscriber

  #307454 15-Mar-2010 17:15
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rvangelder:
RustyGonad: For example lets say your subscribe to the Herald, once you get it, you copy it a thousand times, and give it out for free (it must be ok, cause your not making any money out of it, and everyone can read it online)


While I agree with everything else you wrote, I find this a not so good example.

If we use the Herald as an example, it would be more like us distributing their publication times, a list of the headlines, the journalist's name and which section of the newspaper it was, but not the story content itself.

Now that I've written that, an example I'm emotionally disconnected from, I think they might have a point.

I'd like it if a TVGuide-like company provided a $1/wk subscription to download a 14 day epg.


Somebody from IceTV (from memory) posted on here a few months ago asking if there was interest in a subscription EPG for New Zealand.


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