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  Reply # 324221 28-Apr-2010 14:30
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grolschie: Another thought. From what I read, double the power/watts doesn't mean double the volume. The difference between a 90w amp and a 180w amp is about 3dB. 6dB is twice as loud, so you'd need 4x the watts to double the volume - not that one necessarily wants/needs double the volume.

Why do I mention this? Well, I reckon there would possibly be very little difference in power between your current amp and the Denon. I guess that also depends on the power supplies on each receiver being able to deliver the required power when under load, multiple channels driven, etc.


Interesting.. the words I'v read and been told about the Denon is that it will deliver cleaner power than my Yamaha one.  I will have to listen to the Denon AVR before I buy - no question about it.

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  Reply # 324231 28-Apr-2010 14:42
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cgrew: ...with the old speakers I used to have (before my Diamond 9s) with my current AV receiver is that the Yamaha powered them very well.  Now since upgrading to the Wharfedale Diamond 9s I can almost turn the receiver right up to max and the loudness is not substantially that high.  So I went for a suggestion from Top Hi-Fi and they recommended the Denon.

Pretty much they said that the Yamaha couldn't power my Diamond 9s as good as the Denon AVR - but I'm yet to find that out myself.  And also I believe the Denon has some zone 2 action as you mentioned before.


Uh oh. Diamond 9's have an efficiency rating (sensitivity) of 86dB which will require alot of power to drive them. A whole other class of amp I suspect. If you like your receiver's features and sound, I'd recommend perhaps selling the Diamond 9's and getting more efficient speakers. I'd recommend 90dB or higher sensitivity. A speaker rated at 92dB efficiency will be twice as loud and will require much less power from your amp. e.g. Klipsch make some efficient speakers. Just my $0.02, and YMMV, etc.

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  Reply # 324238 28-Apr-2010 14:58
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Sweet, sounds like you have some valid reasons for upgrading, so have fun with your purchase.  Yes the wharfedales are not very efficient, however they are rated at 6ohm too, so may be a bit easier to drive than an 8 ohm speaker.  Someone will comment on this I'm sure.

I've had the 9.1, 9.5 and 9.6 wharfedales and I highly recommend the 9.6's as the best band for buck speakers available.  I found they went plenty loud enough for me with a standard 100W amplifier, but each to their own.  Throw a sub woofer in there to handle the more powerful low range sounds and you don't need a hugely powerful amplifier to make them play loud.




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  Reply # 324251 28-Apr-2010 15:13
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Well at this point if the Denon is better then my current amp I will make the purchase, but as for selling my Diamond 9s?? Noway! I only just bought them a few months ago haha.

And I absolutlely love the Diamond 9.5s - so much detail, sonically they're outstanding, but just for when I want to turn them right up I want that amp do really drive them good..

Untill then I will post my outcome of the Denon - keep in mind gentlemen the Denon AVR won 'product of the year' for 2009/2010 from What Hi-Fi - very good review.

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  Reply # 324264 28-Apr-2010 15:44
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No doubt the Denon is a really good amp. But whether it's powerful enough, well you can decide. But I recommend trying it on your speakers in a room of similar size to where you have your current setup.



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Reply # 324275 28-Apr-2010 15:52
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grolschie: No doubt the Denon is a really good amp. But whether it's powerful enough, well you can decide. But I recommend trying it on your speakers in a room of similar size to where you have your current setup.


Agreed.

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  Reply # 324369 28-Apr-2010 19:15
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Have you thought about keeping the current receiver and adding a power amp? I'm not sure whether the Yamaha has outputs to send to a power amp, but if you want ti drive the speakers harder, and with less distortion, it might be the way to go.



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  Reply # 324567 29-Apr-2010 09:52
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buzzy: Have you thought about keeping the current receiver and adding a power amp? I'm not sure whether the Yamaha has outputs to send to a power amp, but if you want ti drive the speakers harder, and with less distortion, it might be the way to go.


Yes it does have outputs for adding a pre-amp but only for two channels. 

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  Reply # 324734 29-Apr-2010 14:42
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You'll probably trash those speakers turning the dial all the way up for any length of time.  You get clipping, which sounds bad and damages speakers.  I was always told never over half-way by 'knowlegeable' folk.

Ivan

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  Reply # 324735 29-Apr-2010 14:43
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cgrew:
buzzy: Have you thought about keeping the current receiver and adding a power amp? I'm not sure whether the Yamaha has outputs to send to a power amp, but if you want ti drive the speakers harder, and with less distortion, it might be the way to go.


Yes it does have outputs for adding a pre-amp but only for two channels. 


Which are probably the 2 channels that matter. IMO a seperate power amp is the way to go so you can just get cheap-as recievers and not care about the crap amps in them since they just end up doing the center and rears.




Richard rich.ms



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  Reply # 324762 29-Apr-2010 15:04
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borgia: You'll probably trash those speakers turning the dial all the way up for any length of time.  You get clipping, which sounds bad and damages speakers.  I was always told never over half-way by 'knowlegeable' folk.

Ivan


They're pretty powerfull speakers, it would take alot to 'trash' them but ideally I'm just looking for a better amp to deliver more detail snd punchy bass to what I've got now. 

I don't often turn my amplifier right up but I did notice a difference from the last speakers I had with my current amp - the Diamonds need something that is abit more powerfull.



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  Reply # 324771 29-Apr-2010 15:11
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richms:
cgrew:
buzzy: Have you thought about keeping the current receiver and adding a power amp? I'm not sure whether the Yamaha has outputs to send to a power amp, but if you want ti drive the speakers harder, and with less distortion, it might be the way to go.


Yes it does have outputs for adding a pre-amp but only for two channels. 


Which are probably the 2 channels that matter. IMO a seperate power amp is the way to go so you can just get cheap-as recievers and not care about the crap amps in them since they just end up doing the center and rears.


Yes I agree, and I have thought about getting a pre-amp which would be excellent for listening to stereo playback.  But I think long term I would prefer a decent AV receiver that is cable of a good Dolby Digital TrueHD 5.1 sorround sound mix as well as being able to listen to good stereo playback.

The amp I got now has DD TrueHD & DTS-HDMSTR but I need one more powerfull.

Any other recommendations as far as AV receivers go richms?

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  Reply # 324798 29-Apr-2010 15:48
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If you're not happy with the output of your current amp I highly suspect you'll need to go much more powerful to see the change you are after.  Replacing with one that is only slightly more powerful is most likely not going to result in much overall change. 

If you already have the HD audio formats then really you'll need to spend some money to get an amp with significantly more herbs, -sales talk about a slightly more powerful amp that produces 'cleaner' / 'smoother' power etc just isn't likely to change too much.

Now I'm not saying you can't get better quality sound via better quality components.  What I am saying is listening to your concerns, you'd be better to talk to the likes of Paul Money etc where you'll get access to some cheaper higher model spec units.  This helps in two ways, one is you'll really get more power and two you typically get better quality too the higher up the model range you go.



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  Reply # 324804 29-Apr-2010 16:02
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Jaxson: If you're not happy with the output of your current amp I highly suspect you'll need to go much more powerful to see the change you are after.  Replacing with one that is only slightly more powerful is most likely not going to result in much overall change. 

If you already have the HD audio formats then really you'll need to spend some money to get an amp with significantly more herbs, -sales talk about a slightly more powerful amp that produces 'cleaner' / 'smoother' power etc just isn't likely to change too much.

Now I'm not saying you can't get better quality sound via better quality components.  What I am saying is listening to your concerns, you'd be better to talk to the likes of Paul Money etc where you'll get access to some cheaper higher model spec units.  This helps in two ways, one is you'll really get more power and two you typically get better quality too the higher up the model range you go.


I will keep that in mind thanks mate, I am definitely keen to have a listen to the Denon and try it out but am also prepared to invest in a bigger more powerfull amp if need be.

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  Reply # 324807 29-Apr-2010 16:11
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cgrew: Yes I agree, and I have thought about getting a pre-amp which would be excellent for listening to stereo playback.  But I think long term I would prefer a decent AV receiver that is cable of a good Dolby Digital TrueHD 5.1 sorround sound mix as well as being able to listen to good stereo playback.

The amp I got now has DD TrueHD & DTS-HDMSTR but I need one more powerfull.

Any other recommendations as far as AV receivers go richms?



No offense, but I think you may misunderstand the concept of a power amp vs a pre-amp.

A pre-amp takes a small signal (typically phono, from a turntable) and amplifies it to "line level" to be fed into an amplifier or receiver.

A power amp takes the decoded, line-level signal from your current receiver, amplifies it, and powers the speakers.

What does this mean? You retain your current receiver; it does the decoding work, provides the power for your surrounds and your center, and sends the LFE signal to your sub. It sends the output for the two front speakers to the power amp, which then amplifies the signal and sends it to your front speakers.

The result is that your current receiver does all the decoding and provides surround/sub/center, while the power amp handles the front/stereo speakers.

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