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Topic # 8196 12-Jun-2006 09:38
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http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3697268a11,00.html

Anyone know what this means?

"Though many consumers have been told new sets are HDTV-ready, they will not work without a key component – an anti-pirating device. The internal hardware protects programme right-holders from unauthorised showing or copying and must be in place before shows can screen. Consumer Affairs Minister Judith Tizard has met Sky bosses about the issue and the ministry is investigating."

Is this talking about HDCP?


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  Reply # 38216 12-Jun-2006 10:16
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Pass. I'm interested to know more about quite what they meant aswell.  It's definitely going to be more than Macrovision type stuff.

Jp.




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  Reply # 38218 12-Jun-2006 10:22
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I'd be interested know whether all the TV manufactures will release any media/news about their current line of products, and what will they do to help making the TV ready for the Sky HDTV plan.

I do hope the big players realised that they need to provide free or minimal "upgrade" to their late models (2-3 years old models) to make them Sky HDTV compatible. otherwise, I'd skip Sky HDTV completely and may even avoid HDTVs releases in NZ for years to come...




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  Reply # 38230 12-Jun-2006 11:08
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Hrm. I hope they release some more information. That new Acer of mine ( AT3705-DTV ) supports DVB-T, and has the HDCP on the DVI input aswell.

Anyone out there on the Sky side of things shed any light on the requirements?

Jp.




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  Reply # 38231 12-Jun-2006 11:14
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jpwise: Hrm. I hope they release some more information. That new Acer of mine ( AT3705-DTV ) supports DVB-T, and has the HDCP on the DVI input aswell.

Anyone out there on the Sky side of things shed any light on the requirements?

Jp.



I thought the story was very poorly written - it didn't actually tell you why your new HD capable TV might not be able to actually display Sky's HD content!

The issue is HDCP, Sky's plans for HDTV (like most pay TV operators) rely around copy protection. My understanding is that all TV's with HDMI inputs support HDCP however many that don't have HDMI can display HD signals on their component input but lack the HDCP support which will be required.

There have been issues as well with some newer TV's being incompatible with home built PVR's when people try and use the HDMI input as some TV's won't display a picture from a HDMI input unless it has HDCP which no video cards yet support.

Retailers in NZ love to tell tales pushing sales of big $ TV's, it's good to see somebody finally doing something about it.

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  Reply # 38232 12-Jun-2006 11:16
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HDCP incompatibilty is old hat. Information on it has been around sice at least 2003, so I am surprised that the big retails chains have got away with selling HDCPless TVs for so long.

Also it is not just Sky that needs HDCP, all the new HD-DVDs and Bluray movies will need HDCP, otherwise you only get the SD quality video, not HD.

Computers are worse off as there are currently no graphics cards available to sonsumers that support HDCP and even less in the computer LCD department. And forget using your old CRTs with HDCP, you will only get a black box.

I reckon by the time Vista launches only a handfull of prebuilt laptops and MPCs will support HD.

It's time consumer's refuse to purchase a new TV unless it supports HDCP, and don't just take the dealers word for it, often they know just as much or less than what you the consumer knows. Check the specs in the TVs manual before you purchase that TV!

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  Reply # 38236 12-Jun-2006 11:25
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Well. I just did a search for HDCP capable cards for PC's and was going to post a counterpoint, but found this aswell.

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/ati_nvidia_hdcp_support/default.asp

Interesting reading as I eventually want to put together a MediaPC/HomeTheatrePC.

Does anyone know how Sky's planning on inputing to the TV? Is it going to be via the Digital Tuner, ie: change channel via tv, etc.etc. Or is it going to be through a component input/dvi input similar to current methods?

Jp.




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  Reply # 38364 13-Jun-2006 08:14
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There is a followup story on stuff again today:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3698627a28,00.html


I find it amazing that retailers themselves don't seem to know
 
"LV Martin & Son Ngauranga store manager Gary Challis said the retailer had contacted its suppliers yesterday. "We assumed the ones that were coming through would be compatible, but that may not be the case and we're investigating that."


I can see a *lot* of potential claims under the consumer guarantees act coming as people purchase HD-DVD players over the coming months and realise there HDTV/HD capable TV's are infact not capable.





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  Reply # 38369 13-Jun-2006 08:30
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sbiddle:

There is a followup story on stuff again today:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3698627a28,00.html


I find it amazing that retailers themselves don't seem to know

"LV Martin & Son Ngauranga store manager Gary Challis said the retailer had contacted its suppliers yesterday. "We assumed the ones that were coming through would be compatible, but that may not be the case and we're investigating that."


I can see a *lot* of potential claims under the consumer guarantees act coming as people purchase HD-DVD players over the coming months and realise there HDTV/HD capable TV's are infact not capable.



But do we really blame the retailers?? I mean isn't it sky/Govt who will be deciding whether we follow europe HD or US HD, and in what form the copy protection will apply??

This isn't a simple case of the set not being capable of an HD signal, but the way in which two devices will talk together (well this is what we guessed the article was about)

Here's an interesting article about HDCP as well: http://www.engadget.com/2005/07/21/the-clicker-hdcps-shiny-red-button/






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  Reply # 38371 13-Jun-2006 09:11
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davidcole: Here's an interesting article about HDCP as well: http://www.engadget.com/2005/07/21/the-clicker-hdcps-shiny-red-button/


Hrm... interesting. I like, but that revocation list could be annoying. I'm surprised they made provision for it to be put onto the discs aswell...




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  Reply # 38374 13-Jun-2006 09:24
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davidcole: But do we really blame the retailers?? I mean isn't it sky/Govt who will be deciding whether we follow europe HD or US HD, and in what form the copy protection will apply??

This isn't a simple case of the set not being capable of an HD signal, but the way in which two devices will talk together (well this is what we guessed the article was about)

Here's an interesting article about HDCP as well: http://www.engadget.com/2005/07/21/the-clicker-hdcps-shiny-red-button/




It doesn't have anything to do with the Government or Sky and HDCP has nothing to do with US or European standards. It's been pretty well known for several years that future HDTV broadcasts and formats such as HD-DVD would all have HDCP protection in place. Vista also supports HDCP and the debates over that have also been going on for several years.

The problem lies squarely with TV manufacturers who seem to be claiming that virtually any panel screen that is capable of displaying HD resolution is infact a HD or HDTV capable set. This is just simply misleading. Retailers are just as bad because they are the ones who are spreading the misinformation. I was looking around at large screen LCD's and Plasmas a couple of months ago and couldn't believe that in Wellington not a single person at Noel Leeming, Bond & Bond or Harveys in Tory St even knew what HDCP was yet were happy to tell me a basic 42" low res Plasma would let me watch Sky in HD when it launched.

The consumer guarantees act could face some interesting tests if people start challenging stores over their $5k TV that won't work with a HD-DVD player.


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  Reply # 38379 13-Jun-2006 09:38
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i would hope to see the Government pressures the TV manufacturers to provide HDCP component free to the consumers who have bought the "HDTV" in the past recent years if TV manufacturers have been found guilty in misleading the consumers' thought.

Also, the come-about of HDTV is subsequently to blind the NTSC and PAL standards, although in America, they are using ATSC which is the American's implementation of HDTV... how well or how soon will a global HDTV standards be available, that is a real question.

And I don't see NZ Government will pick ATSC standard for HDTV broadcast in NZ as NZ are largely following European PAL, see the PS1/2/Gamecube/Xbox/Xbox360 etc, they all are using Euro-PAL (PAL BG etc), with the exception of DVD-region 4, which I think it has been abolished now and all DVDs are sold with region-free (does this stand true? could somebody confirm this?)




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  Reply # 38382 13-Jun-2006 09:57
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ljbade: HDCP incompatibilty is old hat. Information on it has been around sice at least 2003, so I am surprised that the big retails chains have got away with selling HDCPless TVs for so long.

Also it is not just Sky that needs HDCP, all the new HD-DVDs and Bluray movies will need HDCP, otherwise you only get the SD quality video, not HD.

Computers are worse off as there are currently no graphics cards available to sonsumers that support HDCP and even less in the computer LCD department. And forget using your old CRTs with HDCP, you will only get a black box.

I reckon by the time Vista launches only a handfull of prebuilt laptops and MPCs will support HD.

It's time consumer's refuse to purchase a new TV unless it supports HDCP, and don't just take the dealers word for it, often they know just as much or less than what you the consumer knows. Check the specs in the TVs manual before you purchase that TV!


I think HD-DVD and BluRay are less of an issue w.r.t. HDCP. It appears that the content providers have decided not to implement the Image Constraint Token which tells the player to downrez the image if come out via analogue so if you have component inputs on your HDTV, then you're okay until 2010 or even 2012. Check out  http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060521-6880.html

I am guessing because in the US there are millions of early adopters of HDTV sets which don't have HDMI and they don't want to annoy the market that would be the early adopters of HD video

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  Reply # 38419 13-Jun-2006 18:32
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what's interesting is that, I was at a bookstore today and saw the "What Home Cinema - May Issue 44", it has article about Sky HDTV (UK) and that the review said it is compatible with all HDMI out there. I did not get into the good read of it, more of a glimpse and brief read. What I glimpsed, i guess it said it (SKY HDTV) will work with today's HDTV HDMI inputs. How true is this, i don't know.

Might worth check out http://www.sky.com




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  Reply # 38465 14-Jun-2006 12:49
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chiefie: what's interesting is that, I was at a bookstore today and saw the "What Home Cinema - May Issue 44", it has article about Sky HDTV (UK) and that the review said it is compatible with all HDMI out there. I did not get into the good read of it, more of a glimpse and brief read. What I glimpsed, i guess it said it (SKY HDTV) will work with today's HDTV HDMI inputs. How true is this, i don't know.



Might worth check out http://www.sky.com



Sky UK are going to be using HDCP for most content. Their new decoders are being manufactures by Thomson and will only have a HDMI connector as the output however you will be able to run it using a TV that has a DMI connector with an adapter. Sky NZ are apparently going to be using the same unit.


As I understand it all TV's that have an HDMI connector have HDCP support built in and most older TV's that have DVI do as well, so they are correct in saying that it will work with all TV's with HDMI.

If you don't have a TV with HDMI or DVI you're basically out of luck, this is the same problem affacting many people in NZ who have purchased "HD" capable TV's. You will be able to get a HD resolution picture using component inputs using a signal that doesn't have HDCP but won't be able to plug a new Sky HDTV receiver in because you won't have HDMI/DVI.




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  Reply # 38469 14-Jun-2006 12:58
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SBiddle. that's what I thought too.. HDMI has the HDCP implement in them... I was a bit unsure with what Sky's announcement is about.

Though you do get a lot of people that not knowing HD Ready tv is really HDMI available on the set. However, not all manufacturer do provide HDMI, and i still see Sony's Bravia provides VGA input for their Bravia mid range, instead of HDMI... surprised me...

Glad my Philips has HDMI... wish it has dual HDMI inputs though.. hmmm...

Also, how can one make use of the HDMI's audio input?




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