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9 posts

Wannabe Geek


Topic # 83578 18-May-2011 22:13
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Hi All,
firstly, lets find all the HDMI cables in the world and burn them.

Issues is this,
Sources are MYSKY HDI, Blu-ray player all running HDMI to an Onkyo SR608 reciever.  HDMI cable to pana TV model Th-p50s10z.

HDMI Run is 15m.  The problem is that pretty much at any time, the picture and audio drops on the TV.  usually when watching sky, but has happened when using the blu-ray player.

Things I have tried.  Replaced all the cables for 1.4 spec.  Reset all devices, powering on in sequence for handshaking, so reciever on first, TV next then source last.  Turned off TV Verria control.  changed settings on mysky from auto to 1080, 720, 576 all the way round to auto again.  changed settings in amp from auto to through to 1080P, 720p then round again to auto.
Initial setup was splitting mysky via a decent CYP 4 way splitter, but have eliminated this out of the setup to diagnoise the problem.  Have now just got the SKY running into CBL/SAT of receiver, straight run to TV, with everything else unplugged with still an issue.  have put a booster on the end of the 15m run, still an issue with drop outs.

When I run the source direct to the Tele, no problemo.  Have done some research and it seems there is a known iissue with handshaking between previous 607 amps and pana G and V series plasmas, even press statements from onkyo and pana about it.  When I talk to pana, they wont do anything until I get one of there cables. Onkyo reckon its just the length of cable run, however I have installed many 15m even 20m runs with no issue in the past.  Any suggestions, Its usually something simple eh.  Any help would be cool, as I am ripping my hair out and dont want to go bald just yet.

Thanks everyone.

Vaughan

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  Reply # 470921 19-May-2011 08:17
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Do you get any problems if you remove the receiver and run direct to TV from each source? (For testing purposes only, not long term).

edit, sorry I see you have tried that.Embarassed

What about if you put the hdmi booster at the rear of the receiver, so it boosts at the start of the run rather than at the end of it?

You do run into these sorts of problems with some cables, especially over 10m runs. Whilst you may have had success in the past, you may have run into problems now in your current location/setup etc.

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  Reply # 470923 19-May-2011 08:19
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Actually, what if you move your sources closer to the tv. If you still had problems with a shorter length cable then Onkyo couldn't dismiss you on that one. I'd be interested too, as it typically is the cable length/quality at that distance.

 
 
 
 




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Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 470929 19-May-2011 08:29
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Thanks jaxson for the reply
Will b at the job Monday so will try the booster, Fraid that everything is wired to a cupboard so client will probably go spare with gear in lounge. However will try your suggestions and repost, maybe I Just run hdmi baluns for the 15m, anyway going to forget about it till Monday. ( so I can get some sleep!)

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  Reply # 470937 19-May-2011 08:41
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vaav: Hi All,
firstly, lets find all the HDMI cables in the world and burn them.

Issues is this,
Sources are MYSKY HDI, Blu-ray player all running HDMI to an Onkyo SR608 reciever.  HDMI cable to pana TV model Th-p50s10z.

HDMI Run is 15m.  The problem is that pretty much at any time, the picture and audio drops on the TV.  usually when watching sky, but has happened when using the blu-ray player.

Things I have tried.  Replaced all the cables for 1.4 spec.  Reset all devices, powering on in sequence for handshaking, so reciever on first, TV next then source last.  Turned off TV Verria control.  changed settings on mysky from auto to 1080, 720, 576 all the way round to auto again.  changed settings in amp from auto to through to 1080P, 720p then round again to auto.
Initial setup was splitting mysky via a decent CYP 4 way splitter, but have eliminated this out of the setup to diagnoise the problem.  Have now just got the SKY running into CBL/SAT of receiver, straight run to TV, with everything else unplugged with still an issue.  have put a booster on the end of the 15m run, still an issue with drop outs.

When I run the source direct to the Tele, no problemo.  Have done some research and it seems there is a known iissue with handshaking between previous 607 amps and pana G and V series plasmas, even press statements from onkyo and pana about it.  When I talk to pana, they wont do anything until I get one of there cables. Onkyo reckon its just the length of cable run, however I have installed many 15m even 20m runs with no issue in the past.  Any suggestions, Its usually something simple eh.  Any help would be cool, as I am ripping my hair out and dont want to go bald just yet.

Thanks everyone.

Vaughan


I had a similar issue with my Onkyo 606. I reckon yours is faulty too. 

The problem is worse for component input sources. In my case the receiver work for a while but eventually video would drop out. 

To fix it , I'd need to switch off/on , if that didn't work then I'd do a 'hard' reset of the receiver - you'll find how to do this in the manual, from memory you have to hold down 2 buttons on the receiver. But, then you have to re-enter your settings.

I found many people with the same problem on the net.  It was a faulty HDMI board, and they replaced that and upgraded the firmware and all was fixed. 

I would have thought this was fixed in the 608, so maybe yours is a different problem.  From your description, I still think there is something wrong with your receiver .    Most frustrating I know.
 
The sales rep told me that onkyo are a cheapo brand and should have higher return rates. I didn't think they were that bad.

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  Reply # 470939 19-May-2011 08:45
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Yeah that's rough if it's an install job, but yeah in that case I would have definitely opted for baluns or one kick a$$ expensive shielded cable to ensure the signal is protected adequately over that sort of distance. 

I've used a 10m hdmi lead to a projector in the past with no problem, but that's generally accepted as the cut off point.  Doesn't mean it won't work past that distance, just the chances of what you are experiencing are much higher.

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  Reply # 470944 19-May-2011 08:59
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Yeah they have had issues with hdmi boards failing. A search on the net returns lots of complaints about that. Seems they do fundamental dumb stuff like put the board horizontal above a known hot area on the power supply/board etc. I have an Onkyo and one that others have had issues with so I'm just praying that doesn't happen to me.

That said though, with that in mind, make sure the gear is well ventilated. You say it's wired back to a cupboard so make sure there is adequate cooling ability in there too. The Onkyos offer best bang for buck with regards number of hdmi inputs/outputs etc but surely something has to give to allow that?

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  Reply # 470966 19-May-2011 10:12
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I have a similar problem with my setup that has a 608 in it. The hdmi run 10m. I use surround speakers so the only thing that drops out is the picture to my Pana PZ850 plasma. It goes black for about 2 seconds. No AV placard appears on the TV screen so I don't think the link is dropped completely, and it comes back faster than you would expect from a complete hdmi handshake. The 608 is also in a remote cupboard, so I can't check the hdmi caption on it while watching the TV.
I also have an Onkyo 606 which had to go back within warranty to have components replaced, once again the problem was with the hdmi, but the upconverter. By the speed that it was fixed I would say it wasn't the first one they had repaired (pure speculation).
Having tried all the things the OP did I am now to the point of taking the 608 back to JBs and letting them sort it. I suspect all is not well with the hdmi controller. My only reluctance is it is the guts of my setup and will be a PITA if it is absent for a long period.




Areas of Geek interest: Home Theatre, HTPC, Android Tablets & Phones, iProducts.

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  Reply # 471020 19-May-2011 11:52
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vaav: Thanks jaxson for the reply

Will b at the job Monday so will try the booster, Fraid that everything is wired to a cupboard so client will probably go spare with gear in lounge. However will try your suggestions and repost, maybe I Just run hdmi baluns for the 15m, anyway going to forget about it till Monday. ( so I can get some sleep!)


I think there maybe a number of things here:

1. I know some Onkyo have handshaking issues with Oppo BD players, audio/video dropouts...Oppo made a fix for them.

2. I dont know what 15M HDMI cable you are using, unless its specified as 24AWG I say it will never be any good. We sell only 24AWG for HDMI cables 12M, 15M, 20M & 25M, we have never had one complaint. When we sold long HDMI cables 26 or 28AWG all we ever had was issues with dropouts. Please verify what AWG your cable is, many dont sell 24AWG or even state what it is?

3. Dont use baluns for this setup unless you want the customer on your back calling you all the time, nothing beats "good" HDMI cable, at the "right" AWG for the job.

If you still dont have a fix, we will loan you a 15M HDMI cable and you can at least find out if its the cable or the Onkyo. http://www.rapalloav.co.nz/product/2164/HDMI-CABLE-7.5M-to-25M/HDMI-CABLE-7.5M-to-25M/

You can mail us at sales@rapalloav.co.nz

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  Reply # 471110 19-May-2011 14:14
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God I wish this receiver had ext out, would be the perfect receiver otherwise.

Completely off topic I know.

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  Reply # 471113 19-May-2011 14:17
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I'm pretty sure I have the 608 as well. It runs really really hot, even with a 140mm fan in the back of my cabinet.

It works well for multichannel input sources, and stereo sources. The movie/music modes from 2 channel sound are ok, but plain stereo works better.

I do like the receiver, but I may eventually find out with better audio processing that runs cooler.




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  Reply # 471261 19-May-2011 19:17
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Judging Onkyo's history of HDMI issues, highish running temperatures and the long cable involved...
My advice would be to discuss an upgraded receiver with your customer. Someone else made a point that Onkyo's seem to offer fantastic features for the $'s... and that maybe there's no such thing as a deal that's too good to be true? Cheap power supplies, crowded boards etc - sometimes things have to be compromised?



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Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 471319 19-May-2011 21:24
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hey thanks everyone for the replies so far, managed to get the cable of rapollo and will try monday - kind of everything pointing to the reciever however.  Had a call tonight from the client and picture is now worse than ever, and the amp is hot...  awesome....(

going to rip it apart monday and find the fix.  (check my positive thinking!)
also as a side note, I have had this issue before with a z series Pana TV plasma and an Integra 30,2b amp, contacted pana and they wanted me to take out the cable, (which was buried in a racked ceiling behind double plasterboard.  got around the issue by running direct from the sources and digital to the amp.  found this last year http://www.eu.onkyo.com/press/press_release_en_8597907.html

Anyway, think I will keep to Yamaha, never had a problem with the brand as a whole and the guys are great to deal with, mind you heard that the new Sony amps are pretty nice.  (havent tried one yet.)  would be great if there was like just one brand in the whole world.  image that, no issues...


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  Reply # 471433 20-May-2011 09:08
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I do believe you get what you pay for, and the 608 is definitely a consumer level receiver, not an installer level one. I went for it to replace my 606 because it had hdmi gui overlay of the sources, which means source information could be displayed at the same time as viewing the picture. It and Denon receivers at twice the price were the only ones that had that capability at that time.
The 608 runs cooler than the 606 it replaced.
My hdmi cable gives no indication of gauge, so a cable of AWG24 may be the next step. My only reservation in dropping $120+ on a cable, is the current dropouts didn't occur from installation but after a period of time.




Areas of Geek interest: Home Theatre, HTPC, Android Tablets & Phones, iProducts.

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  Reply # 471466 20-May-2011 10:21
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vaav: running direct from the sources and digital to the amp.


Remember this typically wont give you HD audio if the customer has a bluray player.  You need hdmi from source to receiver and on to TV typically.

The Onkyos do run very hot, so ventilation is going to be important I suspect.  I'd be looking at the cupboard installation from that angle, regardless of what brand of gear you end up going with really.

Oh and have you tried without the booster too?  It could be the receiver but it could be a lot of things too.

Good on Rapallo for giving you a hand by the way.

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  Reply # 471524 20-May-2011 12:29
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Slightly OT but my Onkoy TX-SR576 HDMI board has failed completely also. And the cost for a new board is almost the same as a new AVR.

So in the interim I have reverted to using coax and optical inputs and an external HDMI switch for the video. If it were my main system I would replaced the AVR but it's only the family room and the family doesn't know or care about the difference lossy and lossless audio.

I won't be buying Onkyo again, ever.




System One: Popcorn Hour A200,  PS3 SuperSlim, NPVR and Plex Server running on Gigabyte Brix (Windows 10 Pro), Sony BDP-S390 BD player, Pioneer AVR, Raspberry Pi running Kodi and Plex, Panasonic 60" 3D plasma, Google Chromecast

System Two: Popcorn Hour A200 ,  Oppo BDP-80 BluRay Player with hardware mode to be region free, Vivitek HD1080P 1080P DLP projector with 100" screen. Harman Kardon HK AVR 254 7.1 receiver, Samsung 4K player, Google Chromecast

 


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