Video stutter on DVB-T on Win7 Hauppauge HVR4400 & ATI Video card

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#523294 19-Sep-2011 22:29

AllenG: UHF Mux Frequencies

Christchurch 682000, 698000, and 706000
Taranaki 562000, 578000, and 594000

Found a list of frequencies. For ease of use:
Auckland 538000, 570000, 666000

Apparently the 'Bandwidth' is 8MHz.

Here's the results I got for 538000, 8MHz:

Signal Statistics for 538000 MHz

______________________________________________________________________

   Strength = -19000

   -19000 (Min) / -18562 (Average) / -18500 (Max)

______________________________________________________________________

   Quality = 100%

   0% 25% 50% 55% 60% 65% 70% 75% 80% 85% 90% 95% 100%
   +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+
   #############################################################
   +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+

   100% (Min) / 100% (Average) / 100% (Max)

______________________________________________________________________

A signal strength of -19000 seems bad, but apparently 'Quality' is the figure to look at.

To be clear, the signal strength ###'s were at 100%, the font on this board is proportional so it doesn't line up properly.

EDIT: Most of the time the quality sits rock solid on 100, but I saw the quality dip briefly to 90, then 80 a couple of times!

EDIT 2:
Hmm, Tuner 1 dropped to 90% 3 times and 80% 4 times in the space of 3 minutes... Tuner 2 (same card), ran for 18 minutes and didn't drop below 100% once!

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AllenG

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#523310 19-Sep-2011 23:09

SamF:
A signal strength of -19000 seems bad...

EDIT: I saw the quality dip briefly to 90!

My Hauppauge quality is 100%, Avermedia 90%. Signal strength is probably in dB? What the reference is and what is good and what is bad is anybody's guess. I'll have a play with the gain (up and down) on my masthead amp tomorrow and see if I can improve the avermedia cards quality from 90%

I suspect my rain fade issues earlier were not from UHF. The preferred tuner order etc got jumbled so this was probably "normal" rain fade with satellite. Since re-ordering the preferred tuners again it hasn't skipped a beat the rest of the night. If media centre will stop mucking about with my merged sources I may finally have bashed this thing into a usable state 8^)

Allen.

mm1352000

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#523328 20-Sep-2011 01:34

Signal strength for Hauppauge tuners is reported in mdB. I think 0 is considered nominal strength. Don't know what Hauppauge consider that to be. My Nova S Plus reports approximately -3000 when locked and [I think] -100000 when not locked.

mm

AllenG

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#523337 20-Sep-2011 06:41

mm1352000: Signal strength for Hauppauge tuners is reported in mdB. I think 0 is considered nominal strength. Don't know what Hauppauge consider that to be. My Nova S Plus reports approximately -3000 when locked and [I think] -100000 when not locked.

mm

Strange that my Hauppauge reports 100% quality and the Avermedia only 90%. At what error rate are there unrecoverable errors that become noticable? I'm not seeing any issues with the image or audio on the avermedia card at the reported 90%. I wonder if the Hauppauge tool is accurate on other brand cards?

Allen.

SamF

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#523631 20-Sep-2011 16:32

Interestingly, I ran the Hauppauge signal test all night last night (nearly 9 hours) on both tuners at once on 538000KHz and quality NEVER dropped below 100 on either of them!

So much for signal issues :)

mm1352000

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#523635 20-Sep-2011 17:02

Guys, I don't know if I'm the only one but with all the ground that has been covered this thread is starting to get quite confusing. I'm fully not convinced that you have the same issue.

@samf: You said on page 3 that you're dealing with a Hauppauge NOVA-TD 500 correct? I'm confused about why my post -->here<-- is not relevant to you. It is reported for Windows 7. Signal statistics are unlikely to be affected. My guess is that it is a bottleneck in the signal processing somewhere on the tuner. Perhaps the demodulator getting overwhelmed. Regardless, my point is that there is a known issue with that specific tuner, so if you have that tuner I would cut my losses and get it replaced.

@Allen: You can't compare signal statistics between cards. Most manufacturers just pick a number between 1 and 100. The number will be relative to arbitrary, tuner-specific thresholds that the manufacturers choose, and don't usually publish. The information I was able to quote about Hauppauge should be viewed as exceptional. In most other cases the numbers have no inherent meaning. When it comes to checking signal there is no substitute for a professional with a decent signal meter.

SamF

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#523640 20-Sep-2011 17:14

mm1352000: Guys, I don't know if I'm the only one but with all the ground that has been covered this thread is starting to get quite confusing. I'm fully not convinced that you have the same issue.

@samf: You said on page 3 that you're dealing with a Hauppauge NOVA-TD 500 correct? I'm confused about why my post -->here<-- is not relevant to you. It is reported for Windows 7. Signal statistics are unlikely to be affected. My guess is that it is a bottleneck in the signal processing somewhere on the tuner. Perhaps the demodulator getting overwhelmed. Regardless, my point is that there is a known issue with that specific tuner, so if you have that tuner I would cut my losses and get it replaced.

I'm not fully convinced we have the same issue either, it seemed to be very similar in the beginning but there are some definite differences now.

I absolutely agree with you that those posts describe my issue perfectly, however, from what I read in them, the signal is affected (hence my signal testing above), so maybe this isn't so clear cut. Also, while people are speculating that a newer revision of the card will fix the issue, there is nothing to indicate that this is in fact the case.

There is also the small matter of why everything works perfectly in XP... not sure it's a hardware issue based on this fact.

That said, I am about to send a formal support request to Hauppauge on this issue and see what their response is.

mm1352000

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#523654 20-Sep-2011 17:50

I absolutely agree with you that those posts describe my issue perfectly, however, from what I read in them, the signal is affected (hence my signal testing above), so maybe this isn't so clear cut.

I read it differently. In the first link I read:

i've been waiting since the end of last year for this problem to be fixed also!
Usual story: Windows 7, can't pick up any channels whatsoever. Worked in Vista.

Followed by the response:

That is not problem referred to above. It specifically related to regular picture breakup on H.264 channels in New Zealand (due to the higher DVB-T bitrate being used there - higher than any other country).

I interpret that to mean that the signal quality may appear to be fine but parts of the tuner hardware/firmware/driver just can't handle the high data rate, resulting in the picture corruption as bits are lost.

Also, while people are speculating that a newer revision of the card will fix the issue, there is nothing to indicate that this is in fact the case.

If you don't mind me asking: how old is your card?

There is also the small matter of why everything works perfectly in XP... not sure it's a hardware issue based on this fact.

Yes, that is certainly an interesting point. Just to clarify - the problem in W7 is on the machine that has the card in *any* software.

That said, I am about to send a formal support request to Hauppauge on this issue and see what their response is.

I think that's an excellent idea. I'd be interested to see their response.

SamF

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#523714 20-Sep-2011 19:51

mm1352000: I interpret that to mean that the signal quality may appear to be fine but parts of the tuner hardware/firmware/driver just can't handle the high data rate, resulting in the picture corruption as bits are lost.

You may well be right, I would have thought it would manifest in signal degradation as it has to process the signal at some point, but maybe the signal tester is testing purely signal strength / quality and not the 'post processed' signal?

If you don't mind me asking: how old is your card?

I purchased it in Nov 2010, not sure how old it actually is tho..

Yes, that is certainly an interesting point. Just to clarify - the problem in W7 is on the machine that has the card in *any* software.

Yes, I've tried WinTV, MC & MP with exactly the same results.

I think that's an excellent idea. I'd be interested to see their response.

I'll keep you posted! :)

Pinky83

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#523793 20-Sep-2011 22:19

Hi everyone, I seem to be having the same issue...

I have recently built a computer for HTPC use with the following specs:

Gigabyte a75m-UD2h Mobo with an AMD A8-3850 APU, 8GB RAM, Samsung BH123A Blu-ray drive, 2 x 2TB Samsung HDDs, M4 64GB Crucial SSD, Hauppauge NOVA-S-Plus DVB-s tuner, Hauppauge DVB-t Dual tuner, Silverstone ST50F-P Modular PSU & Silverstone GD06 Case. I think thats everything, also running Windows 7 SP1 64-bit.

The problem is as follows.. The system is great, snappy and cool, but when watching Freeview HD channels through media center which are 720p or 1080i and even 576p Maori TV for example (and recordings) they seem to be very blocky/artifacty when they first start (or when i skip forward or back within the recording). The blockinees usually lasts around 3 or so seconds and then the video file will continue to play fine until i change channel or skip back etc. The blockiness is actually exactly the same as SamF's pictures posted.

I am not sure why this happens as the computer will play a Full High Definition Blu-ray flawlessly (through Power DVD 9). Also the recordings are fine as they play clearly from start to finish on other PCs.

I have tried Windows 32-bit, Windows 64-bit and Windows 64-bit SP1. Problem is exactly the same through all versions. I have also tried Catalyst Drivers 11.6b, 11.7, 11.8, and the beta 11.9, these are the only and all available drivers for the 6550D Graphic device within the A8-3850. The problem is consistent throughtout all scenarios.

Seems to be the same problem as you guys might be having, more specifically the Ati (with 11.x drivers) and Windows 7 64-bit media center.

Look forward to hearing from you and hope we can all help each other sort these issues.

dale77

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#524345 21-Sep-2011 23:28

sub: Those threads linked in mm135200's post refer to a specific issue that only affect the Nova-TD devices. If you're having an issue with an HVR-2200, it'll be something else. I've got every revision HVR-2200 and they all work fine with our DVB-T system in NZ.

And I have a NOVA 500 which works fine, as well.

Although this is with Vista. So it would seem XP and Vista + TD-500 + NZ DVB-T = OK!

HTPC: Antec Fusion 430, Gigabyte GA-MA78GPM-UD2H F7, AMD X2 4850e, Sapphire 4670 1GB, Corsair 4x1Gb, Adata 128Gb SSD, WD10EARS Green, LG GGC-H20L Blu-ray, Hauppauge NOVA TD-500, Logitech z-5500, Logitech Harmony 525, Samsung LA40B530 1080p, Vista Premium-32 SP2, Catalyst 10.12(Facelift preview), Mediaportal 1.2.3+OneButtonMusic, AC3Filter, Cyberlink Powercinema 6 codec, BLU-RAY: Samsung BD-F7500

dale77

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#524348 21-Sep-2011 23:33

Pinky83: Hi everyone, I seem to be having the same issue...

The problem is as follows.. The system is great, snappy and cool, but when watching Freeview HD channels through media center which are 720p or 1080i and even 576p Maori TV for example (and recordings) they seem to be very blocky/artifacty when they first start (or when i skip forward or back within the recording). The blockinees usually lasts around 3 or so seconds and then the video file will continue to play fine until i change channel or skip back etc. The blockiness is actually exactly the same as SamF's pictures posted.

I see similar issues when I try to upgrade Catalyst on my ATI 4670 system from 10.12 to 11.6 or higher. With 11.8 it only seemed to be the first little bit of playback that was effected on starting, or moving about in a stream.

Pinky83

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#524351 21-Sep-2011 23:44

Hi Dale77,

Thanks for the reply. That is good to know and I have also read a few other internet forums/discussions stating similar success with 10.12 drivers and then having poor video quality with higher catalyst revisions but the problem with the A83850 CPU (with 6550D graphics) is that it is only compatible with ATI Catalyst Drivers 11.6b and upwards.

I am just not too sure what to do at this point. I know that 64-bit windows cannot have the live tv decoder changed to another decoder for Media Center but is there anyway in Windows 7 64-bit Media Center to allow the CPU to decode live tv H.264 .wtv files rather than the ATI card? Could that work?

Thanks for all the help everyone! :)

Pinky83

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#524517 22-Sep-2011 11:25

Hi, a quick update...

I have tried viewing my .wtv recorded tv H264 files through Power DVD 9 on the same computer/configuration. They play fine on that program (although they don't look as sharp as through media center and not the greatest functionality), but if I turn on hardware acceleration within power dvd 9 tools then the videos studder and break up when they first start or skip just like in media center!

With my problem anyways it seems that when programs use ati graphics for hardware acceleration on h264 .wtv files it can't handle them very well. It seems it is simply the ATI drivers which cause these issues. Has anyone had success on correcting this problem from within media center. Anyways to turn off graphic acceleration for media center?

Thanks everyone. :)

mm1352000

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#524540 22-Sep-2011 12:00

@Pinky83: might just have to be patient while ATI get their drivers right. You could try the 11.9rc drivers available -->here<--.

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