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  Reply # 43810 12-Aug-2006 21:47
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4Mb/s is about as low as you can run mpeg2 before it starts to block badly, some sky channels are 2.5Mb/s.

DVD depends, but on a dual layer without too much extra flotsam on the disc it will usually sit around 7 or so.




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  Reply # 43814 13-Aug-2006 00:39
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Dont know how true this is but dont sky use active bitrates?

Meaning stuff that is more likely to be watched gets allocated more bandwidth than say a cooking show...

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 43815 13-Aug-2006 07:48
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Sky does use VBR (variable bit rate) multiplexing. The contributing encoders to a mux have get feedback from the multiplexer as to what rate they can contribute at any point. So bit rates can range from anything like 2Mb/s through to 7Mb/s depending on the pic content of all contributing encoders.
 
In setting the whole process up certain encoders can have more weighting baised toward them. Therefore in any one mux you may find several low rate stocking fillers (like foodchannel) and a couple of premiums like a movie and a sports channel, the latter two would have a better slice at the bit distribution than the former.

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  Reply # 43816 13-Aug-2006 07:59
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richms: 4Mb/s is about as low as you can run mpeg2 before it starts to block badly, some sky channels are 2.5Mb/s.

DVD depends, but on a dual layer without too much extra flotsam on the disc it will usually sit around 7 or so.


Just for comparison's sake I ahve T2 Extreme Edition DVD which has a version of the movie in wmvhd on it (at 720p). That is encoded at about 7Mbs and looks pretty good - certainly much better than a DVD.  I hear in the US satellite and cable TV providers run their HD transmissions from 8-12Mbs but the spec says it should go up to 19Mbs but that doesn't usually happen because broadcasters get greedy and want to have more streams and so do bit robbing and heavier compression.




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  Reply # 43817 13-Aug-2006 08:46
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Many of the US satellite operators are also using mpeg4 for their HD transmissions especially the local in local services, they often transmit 1280x1080 rather than 1920x1080 in an attempt to make low bit rates paletable.

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  Reply # 43818 13-Aug-2006 08:52
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cyril7: Many of the US satellite operators are also using mpeg4 for their HD transmissions especially the local in local services, they often transmit 1280x1080 rather than 1920x1080 in an attempt to make low bit rates paletable.

Cyril


Listening to the experiences of somebody in the LA area who has just upgraded their DirectTV service from MPEG2 to MPEG4, the most interesting aspect was (no mention of PQ yet) having to change his dish from a standard Sky size one to a 1m one!  Still despite all this, I would be happy to put a 1m dish if I could get HDTV




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  Reply # 43819 13-Aug-2006 09:28
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These new 1meter dishs they are putting up are 1m wide but not very high, this is due to the fact that they are looking at 3 orbital slots that are quite widely spaced. To allow the introduction of HD local in locals, DirectTV is using both Ku band (as we do on optus sats) and Ka band as well. These Ka band satellites (bought from the defunct spaceway corporation) are capable of hundrends of spot  beams, and capable of providing backhauls directly between sats at other obit locations.

The whole local in local thing has been quite a headache for both Direct and Echstar(Dishnetwork). A few years ago they realised that to be competitive they had to be in the same market space as cable operators. Up until then they were niche market operators. As such there was an agreement they had to sign upto (after the cable operators plonked them in court) know as the must carry rules. These rules had applied to cable operators for years, simply it meant that any TV station no matter how small it was that was transmitted on FTA terrestial had to be carried within its coverage region by any cable operator in that region. Not a real issue for cable operators but can you imagine what that would mean for direct and dish who cover the whole country.

Fortunately one aspect of the rule was that the TV station no matter how small had to pay for any backhaul costs from whereever to in DirectTVs case their uplink site in Colorado. This limited the number of small church TV stations and zillions of little stations from consuming traffic. But there was still hundreds of affiliate stations they have to carry. Which is the real crazy thing, for each network (ABC, CBS, Fox etc) they would have to transmit every affiliate, which means that for 70% of the day, they were carring the same sydicate programming. To fit it all in they were able to provide a large number of spot beams with new satellites, this meant that transponder frequenecies could be reused in serveral regions for local in local traffic.

Now the same has applied to HD transmissions, they have to carry both SD FTA terrestials that ask for carrage, as well as HD. Hence they have deployed Ka band giving a massive  bandwidth, once again to just carry the same syndicated programming. But thats big business in the US for you.

Sorry if I stole the thread.

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  Reply # 43839 13-Aug-2006 17:06
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very informative ty

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  Reply # 43917 14-Aug-2006 15:24
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Just to get back on topic a bit. The HDNET 720P wmvhd I purchased runs at about 8.5Mbs. The quality is very good on a 720p display. Now BluRay an HD DVD can run up to 12Mbs (even peak higher) so I would expect to see even better quality there (especially since the formats are capable of 1080p).

I would be quite happy with 8-9Mbs 1080i HD myself, OTA, satellite or via cable. In fact I would think TCL has the best chance of doing it at the lowest cost. All they have to do is upgrade their head ends, and make us the consumer buy the new STB's! I was told the network itself has the capacity and if not, ditch some of the PPV channels!




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  Reply # 43920 14-Aug-2006 17:42
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Generally it is concidered that distribution level HD (ie good broadcast transmission rates) is 19Mb/s for 1080i/Mpeg2, 13Mb/s 1080i/mpeg4, and 9Mb/s 720p/mpeg4, so your fiqures addup.

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  Reply # 43934 14-Aug-2006 20:15
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The problem TCL have is that they simply do not have and cannot get the number of customers to pay for the HD feed. They would need to a much larger pool of customers then just Wellington and Christchurch to pass the costs onto.Frown







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  Reply # 43975 15-Aug-2006 09:47
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They are spending a lot of money on advertising their new DSL plans which I would imagine have marginal profit and are not that much better than Telecom's offerings. What they should be doing is marketing hard in areas (Wgtn/ChCh) where they have a clear product advantage. After all, I can't imagine many people having the view that any current DSL plan is as good as TCL's cable plans. Combine that with lower monthly phone rental, cable TV (quality issues aside!), they could make a good case.




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