Hi from Chorus NZ

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'That VDSL Cat'
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#946295 5-Dec-2013 22:12

CamH:
hio77: thats quite a difference, 46M on 17a though? or are you contracting two of your 8b's

the 27M looks unwell for that distance too.. what is your exact attenuation?

in experience with faults i have had, very very few visionstream techs know what they are talking about with vdsl short of, look the light goes, it works. or we reset DLM give it 10 days.

your connections almost could do with a thread of its own for a bit of a discussion on the differences between them, out of interest if not anything else.

Nope, it's simply one 17a connection (modem even reports 17a). The speed tests are not going to be properly accurate, as there are now a few factors between the two connections now (different hardware, firewalls etc in front of it). Next time I'm on site I'll grab speed tests using a more accurate method directly from modem telnet, but at this time of night, this is all I can get via remote desktop into that site :)

We have seen a few cases where 17a is reported, but the spectrum isn't actually used.
Ild question if maybe this is the case for you.

Just doesn't seem right otherwise.. I'll look forward to seeing detail though, sounds like a good comparison that we don't see very often - multiple links assumed to be with the sane exact factors involved.

Hopefully chorusnz can atlest take out some of the guessing in who's a valid target for 17a.

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CamH

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#955066 19-Dec-2013 20:01

*tumbleweed rolls past as we wait for an answer from Chorus*

hio77

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#955176 19-Dec-2013 22:57

CamH: *tumbleweed rolls past as we wait for an answer from Chorus*

i suspect this is one that wont get answered unfortunately :/

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#967458 15-Jan-2014 11:34

hio77:
CamH: *tumbleweed rolls past as we wait for an answer from Chorus*

i suspect this is one that wont get answered unfortunately :/

We have a number of conditions that must be met for your line to be switched to a 17a Spectrum profile.
If your line is on the 17a spectrum profile, but the spectrum between 8Mhz and 17Mhz is not being used, I'd be looking at your CPE. it shouldn't report 17a unless the DSLAM is providing that, and we run 8b and 17a on independant profiles.

As for the question of 'what allows a line to be on 17a':

The current bandplan is 8b (goes without saying!)
The line is shorter than 350 meters, which is an electrical length in the 5530 Network Analyser of <7dB
DLM is in operation on that line
A Bandplan switch hasn't occured in the last 90 days (to stop bouncing between 8b+17a, while still allowing re-evaluation as/when required)

Hopefully this helps answer some questions?

hio77

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#967491 15-Jan-2014 12:29

BMarquis:

We have a number of conditions that must be met for your line to be switched to a 17a Spectrum profile.
If your line is on the 17a spectrum profile, but the spectrum between 8Mhz and 17Mhz is not being used, I'd be looking at your CPE. it shouldn't report 17a unless the DSLAM is providing that, and we run 8b and 17a on independant profiles.

As for the question of 'what allows a line to be on 17a':

The current bandplan is 8b (goes without saying!)
The line is shorter than 350 meters, which is an electrical length in the 5530 Network Analyser of <7dB
DLM is in operation on that line
A Bandplan switch hasn't occured in the last 90 days (to stop bouncing between 8b+17a, while still allowing re-evaluation as/when required)

Hopefully this helps answer some questions?

that is very helpful indeed, its great to have an uptodate answer on it.

just to clarify, DLM is in operation on the line, are you referring to the DLM training period, or simply DLM being there?

find the <7dB or 350M reading to be interesting too, seems to slide in far longer than most lines capable of we (in the snap vdsl performance thread) have seen

clearly the measurements are taken at different frequency to a vdsl line itself, by theses conditions, ild tentatively say my line of 217M (electrical length calculated via modem..) or 4.4dB would come under that?

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#967497 15-Jan-2014 12:38

hio77:
that is very helpful indeed, its great to have an uptodate answer on it.

just to clarify, DLM is in operation on the line, are you referring to the DLM training period, or simply DLM being there?

DLM simply being enabled for that line - DLM may stop analysing a particular line for a number of reasons (it cannot find a stable profile, someone has accidentally disabled it manually, etc)

hio77:
find the <7dB or 350M reading to be interesting too, seems to slide in far longer than most lines capable of we (in the snap vdsl performance thread) have seen

keep in mind that is only the criteria to be eligible for switching.
If the switch happens, and the line is unstable (lots of noise/interference in the higher frequency bands) DLM may need to switch back.

hio77:
clearly the measurements are taken at different frequency to a vdsl line itself, by theses conditions, ild tentatively say my line of 217M (electrical length calculated via modem..) or 4.4dB would come under that?

correct, the measurement is not the DSL attenuation.
if your line is 217M and 4.4dB, then DLM will have attempted 17a. it may or may not have stayed there depending on line stability.

Cheers,
Brent

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#967530 15-Jan-2014 13:31

BMarquis:

keep in mind that is only the criteria to be eligible for switching.
If the switch happens, and the line is unstable (lots of noise/interference in the higher frequency bands) DLM may need to switch back.

considering my line did infact have alarge interference issue for about 3 weeks at the start of it, i question if this did infact affect me in that case. or does a port reset clear all of this history? (one was done a few months ago.)

i fully understand there are other factors involved, and by no part do i expect a magic switch, simply understanding the process more than i feel i already do.

BMarquis:
hio77:
clearly the measurements are taken at different frequency to a vdsl line itself, by theses conditions, ild tentatively say my line of 217M (electrical length calculated via modem..) or 4.4dB would come under that?

correct, the measurement is not the DSL attenuation.
if your line is 217M and 4.4dB, then DLM will have attempted 17a. it may or may not have stayed there depending on line stability.

great to know.

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#967701 15-Jan-2014 17:53

how does one go about getting a port reset done? we had a sparky in recently and he had the power off a few times + my son switched off the multi board the router is powered from (this has been fixed).

I was on DLM-1 but since the above its sitting on DLM-2. the stats are pretty much the same as when i was on DLM-1. and the modem had been up for 9 days since the last reset so i would have though DLM would have gone and done its thing again.

Also about the 17a profile, im less than 100m from the cabinet, i guess DLM is working on my line but see above, and my attenuation is ~6.2dB. is there any way to know if 17a has been tried?

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#967951 16-Jan-2014 09:22

Jase2985: how does one go about getting a port reset done? we had a sparky in recently and he had the power off a few times + my son switched off the multi board the router is powered from (this has been fixed).

I was on DLM-1 but since the above its sitting on DLM-2. the stats are pretty much the same as when i was on DLM-1. and the modem had been up for 9 days since the last reset so i would have though DLM would have gone and done its thing again.

Also about the 17a profile, im less than 100m from the cabinet, i guess DLM is working on my line but see above, and my attenuation is ~6.2dB. is there any way to know if 17a has been tried?

I can't see any reason why you would require a 'port reset' here - although 'port reset' tends to mean different things to different people :)

DLM continually monitors and evaluate a line for stability. It will then choose the best profile set.

There is not an easy way to check your line for a 17a attempt - I am not keen on offering this a a service for fear of 10,000 requests to check lines for people...

People really do need to rest assured that DLM is always doing the best possible for your line and the lines around you - remember its about providing a stable service for everyone, not a high speed service just for you.

For all I know, someone other premises within your cable bundle upgraded to VDSL around the same time as you had the sparky in.

Cheers,
Brent

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#968341 16-Jan-2014 17:06

That totally fair enough.

And funny that, i just checked my modem stats again and i was bumped to the 17a profile about 540am this morning, currently sitting on DLM-2.

hio77

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#968347 16-Jan-2014 17:12

BMarquis:
There is not an easy way to check your line for a 17a attempt - I am not keen on offering this a a service for fear of 10,000 requests to check lines for people...

alike the ISP folk around here that do line checks for people, i wouldnt wish the barrage of requests they probably get upon them, or you..

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#968361 16-Jan-2014 17:17

but to be fair most people dont have the stats to start with to even bother asking

hio77

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#968372 16-Jan-2014 17:23

Jase2985: but to be fair most people dont have the stats to start with to even bother asking

theres quite a difference between someone flailing around going my internets now fast enough fix it, and someone simply interested in a logical reasoning.

very few of the later unfortunately imo, but as long as the flailing is done politely and patiently i find it fair game.

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