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302 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  # 2276589 15-Jul-2019 00:52
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There's a USB-C w/ Thunderbolt port on my Dell laptop, however since it sucks 240w from the power brick, I have serious doubt as to whether I'll ever find a suitable USB-C power supply.

I think in the case of workstation class machinery, the Thunderbolt support is there for daisy-chaining monitors more than delivering voltage. It does accept a weaker power supply than 240w through USB-C but throttles the processor back to compensate - 3.1GHz down to 1.6GHz. Which is just the wrong way to go about things.




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  # 2276629 15-Jul-2019 07:36
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It's worth adding a few things to this to help people avoid being confused.

 

USB-C chargers come in both PD and non PD formats. A USB-C charger that doesn't support PD will output 5V only, just like a USB-A charger that doesn't have QC3.0 will only output 5V rather than the 9V and 12V that QC2.0/QC3.0/QC4.0 support.

 

Despite the fact a USB-C charger with no PD support is pretty much useless they're still being sold, and only recently I saw a brand new wall plate hit the market that has dual USB-A / USB-C but with no PD support. After dealing with the supplier I realised they really had zero concept of the limitations of the product and were still convinced it literally was the best product since sliced bread.

 

I have a couple of Omars powerbanks

 

http://www.omars.com/details/99/cid/9.html

 

http://www.omars.com/details/42/cid/9.html

 

 

 

Top one is 10,000 mAh and has 18W PD support and delivers 5V @3A, 9V @ 2A and 12V @ 1.5A whereas the bottom 20,000 mAh one has 45W PD support supporting those same PD profiles as well as 15V @ 3A and 20V @ 2.25A.

 

Despite the top one having PD it is incapable of charging most USB-C Chromebooks or laptops as these typically all require 15V or 20V profiles depending on the device. Most laptops (my HP Elitebook included) need 20V support. With the bottom 20,000 mAh powerbank I can charge my Elitebook at 45W. This isn't full speed as that requires something delivering 65W @ 20V

 

 

 

But look at this Omars one as an example that looks similar (and only sells for a few $ less) and it doesn't support PD

 

http://www.omars.com/details/101/cid/9.html

 

I can't blame people for being confused about USB-C as it's not easy to understand!

 

To add to that you then have companies that butcher the PD standard to suit their own needs. Panasonic are an example of this for their new IFE that's featured on Air New Zealand's new A320neo and A321neo aircraft which features USB-A and USB-C ports. USB-A on a plane has been a total waste of time historically and anybody who has tried plugging a phone into the port on a plane may have seen that it's probably struggled to deliver even 400mA meaning it could take upwards of 10 hours to charge a modern phone.

 

Plugging my USB-C PD tester into the USB-C port shows it supports 5V, 9V, 12V, 15V and 20V PD profiles *except* the port can only deliver a maximum of 27W. You typically won't see 20V PD support on any charger that delivers under 45W as 2.25A is pretty much deemed to be the "best practice" lowest output. Panasonic deliver 20V @ 1.35A (27W) which is insufficient to even charge my laptop - it just shows an error saying the charger isn't delivering enough power.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 
 
 
 




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  # 2276703 15-Jul-2019 08:49
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Does anyone know the PD specs of the Apple 87W charger? Can't mm to find it online




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  # 2276735 15-Jul-2019 09:27
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Batman: Does anyone know the PD specs of the Apple 87W charger? Can't mm to find it online

 

No.. But my pick would be 87W.

 

Real question is whether it's fully PD compliant and supports other voltages and auto negotiation. It's also worth noting for that sort of power you to need the correct cables with e-marker chip. For delivering over 60W via USB-C cables with e-marker chips are a requirement.

 

If you think understanding USB-C is complex I didn't even start on the issue of cable compatability!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  # 2276739 15-Jul-2019 09:29
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I have a 65W right here. The spec reads:

 

Output: 20.3V 3A (USB PD) or 9V 3A (USB PD) or 5.2V 2.4A





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  # 2276776 15-Jul-2019 10:24
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1024kb: There's a USB-C w/ Thunderbolt port on my Dell laptop, however since it sucks 240w from the power brick, I have serious doubt as to whether I'll ever find a suitable USB-C power supply.

I think in the case of workstation class machinery, the Thunderbolt support is there for daisy-chaining monitors more than delivering voltage. It does accept a weaker power supply than 240w through USB-C but throttles the processor back to compensate - 3.1GHz down to 1.6GHz. Which is just the wrong way to go about things.



I have the Dell TB16 dock at work. Advertised as being 240 watt. Uses two thunderbolt sockets to do it. Dells docks when used with dell laptops can slighty exceed the max power set out in the usb power delivery standard.

Delivers power good, but other aspects of the dock suck. Connect two or more of the following: keyboard, mouse, usb headset to the dock and it starts flaking out. Kinda undermines the point of not needing to plug in a seprate power adaptor when you need to plug usb peripherals directly to the laptop...



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  # 2276787 15-Jul-2019 10:41
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I'll stick with my power brick, it's not too bad!




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  # 2277656 16-Jul-2019 10:19
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sbiddle:

 

To add to that you then have companies that butcher the PD standard to suit their own needs. Panasonic are an example of this for their new IFE that's featured on Air New Zealand's new A320neo and A321neo aircraft which features USB-A and USB-C ports. USB-A on a plane has been a total waste of time historically and anybody who has tried plugging a phone into the port on a plane may have seen that it's probably struggled to deliver even 400mA meaning it could take upwards of 10 hours to charge a modern phone.

 

Plugging my USB-C PD tester into the USB-C port shows it supports 5V, 9V, 12V, 15V and 20V PD profiles *except* the port can only deliver a maximum of 27W. You typically won't see 20V PD support on any charger that delivers under 45W as 2.25A is pretty much deemed to be the "best practice" lowest output. Panasonic deliver 20V @ 1.35A (27W) which is insufficient to even charge my laptop - it just shows an error saying the charger isn't delivering enough power.

 

 

To be fair what Panasonic have done makes some sense. If you have 150 passengers trying to draw 80 to 100 watts each then you have some reasonable load on a finite electrical rescource. Providing more power means heavier cabling and also bigger (heavier) generators. Airlines and aircraft manufacturers do all they can to reduce weight.





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  # 2277707 16-Jul-2019 12:21
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Technofreak:

 

sbiddle:

 

To add to that you then have companies that butcher the PD standard to suit their own needs. Panasonic are an example of this for their new IFE that's featured on Air New Zealand's new A320neo and A321neo aircraft which features USB-A and USB-C ports. USB-A on a plane has been a total waste of time historically and anybody who has tried plugging a phone into the port on a plane may have seen that it's probably struggled to deliver even 400mA meaning it could take upwards of 10 hours to charge a modern phone.

 

Plugging my USB-C PD tester into the USB-C port shows it supports 5V, 9V, 12V, 15V and 20V PD profiles *except* the port can only deliver a maximum of 27W. You typically won't see 20V PD support on any charger that delivers under 45W as 2.25A is pretty much deemed to be the "best practice" lowest output. Panasonic deliver 20V @ 1.35A (27W) which is insufficient to even charge my laptop - it just shows an error saying the charger isn't delivering enough power.

 

 

To be fair what Panasonic have done makes some sense. If you have 150 passengers trying to draw 80 to 100 watts each then you have some reasonable load on a finite electrical rescource. Providing more power means heavier cabling and also bigger (heavier) generators. Airlines and aircraft manufacturers do all they can to reduce weight.

 

 

It does make sense - it just breaks stuff. I'm not sure what the point is of providing a 20V PD profile is nothing that is 20V will work. The problem is most people don't understand any of this about PD profiles and just expect if there is a USB-C port that they can plug their laptop in and it will work. Unfortunately it won't.

 

I chatted to the Panasonic aero guys at CES last year when I was there about the challenges of USB-C power. The holy grail is 100W PD to every seat at some point in the future, but doing that is a truly massive challenge.

 

 


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  # 2277732 16-Jul-2019 13:08
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Just add solar panels to every spare inch of the exterior skin of the aircraft!




Keep calm, and carry on posting.

 

 

 

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  # 2277740 16-Jul-2019 13:14
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sbiddle:

 

The problem is most people don't understand any of this about PD profiles and just expect if there is a USB-C port that they can plug their laptop in and it will work.

 

 

I'm all for USB-C, but this I feel is where they've let themselves down. It isn't clear, but sometimes down to luck. I guess you could say that no matter what, just use the supply cable that came with your device. But coming from USB-A, people's expectation is that a cable is a cable, is a power supply.


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  # 2277750 16-Jul-2019 13:38
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NzBeagle:

 

sbiddle:

 

The problem is most people don't understand any of this about PD profiles and just expect if there is a USB-C port that they can plug their laptop in and it will work.

 

 

I'm all for USB-C, but this I feel is where they've let themselves down. It isn't clear, but sometimes down to luck. I guess you could say that no matter what, just use the supply cable that came with your device. But coming from USB-A, people's expectation is that a cable is a cable, is a power supply.

 

 

But even in the USB-A world a cable is not just a cable, and USB-A chargers are not all created equal.

 

Plug many modern Android devices into something claiming to be a "high power 2.1A" port and the reality if you'll find your device at around 5V @ .7A maybe 1A tops if you're really lucky. Your device will take hours and hours to charge at this rate.

 

Plug it into something with QC2.0/QC3.0/VooC/Supercharge and you'll suddenly find your phone or tablet can charge 3-4 faster.

 

It's like pretty much 99% of public USB-A ports in places such as airports and hotels. For all intents and purposes they're pretty much useless. Sure they may provide basic 5V, but if it's going to take 10 hours for your phone to charge vs 90 mins with the correct charger it doesn't necessarily deliver much benefit.

 

 


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