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130 posts

Master Geek


  #788776 28-Mar-2013 16:31
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DarkShadow:
browned:
I pay $90.22 a month for unlimited naked and I get 500 minutes free phone calls to NZ and 44 countries around the world (excluding mobiles). I have no issues with speed or throttling and I can't remember the last time I actually talked with slingshot about an actual service issue or problem. Show me a cheaper option and I might move to UFB when it is available in my area on the Monday the 1st April.

db

What company do you use?


He mentions the name in the post.

1081 posts

Uber Geek


  #788968 28-Mar-2013 21:08
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Whats an "Ultra Fibre modem" as compared to "fibre premises equipment "?
As listed supplied free in the residential plans

 
 
 
 


8035 posts

Uber Geek

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  #789004 28-Mar-2013 22:04
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insane: 
To those who are comparing Telecom to Telco XYZ on price, are both telco's providing the same backhaul contention ratios? There's a lot more that goes into the UFB product than what meets the eye, and when put head to head the 'cheap' offerings simply won't stack up when it comes to consistency.



Which leaves the problem how is a customer supposed to judge the quality/contention ratio etc of an ISP?

... other than looking at how long recent complaint threads are on gpforums and geekzone of course!

674 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #789023 28-Mar-2013 22:21
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Skolink: Whats an "Ultra Fibre modem" as compared to "fibre premises equipment "?
As listed supplied free in the residential plans


"Fibre premises equipment" refers to the ONT (Optical Network Terminal). Converts the optical signals into electrical signals.

"Ultra Fibre Modem" refers to the router that plugs into the ONT and then on to your computers.




Morgan French-Stagg

 

morgan.french.net.nz

 

 


195 posts

Master Geek


  #789024 28-Mar-2013 22:22
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sbiddle:
SightUnseen: Really, it's a simple case of nothing to see here folks, move along (including the fact that voice will still be provisioned over copper - the writing was definitely on the wall for that aspect). 


Voice over copper is a temporary thing until the ONT can be used. There are a number of issues with this approach right now, hence the need to keep a POTS line.

I would love to write more about this because Telecom's voice solution is definately an interesting approach to a solution, but alas much of what I know isn't public information.



They are going to use the existing infrastructure and use the VOIP gear in the cabinets is my guess so people still use the existing copper which is why they have no VOIP plans yet.  Not really the future but will be good for legacy equipment.

1081 posts

Uber Geek


  #789097 29-Mar-2013 08:57
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naggyman:
Skolink: Whats an "Ultra Fibre modem" as compared to "fibre premises equipment "?
As listed supplied free in the residential plans


"Fibre premises equipment" refers to the ONT (Optical Network Terminal). Converts the optical signals into electrical signals.

"Ultra Fibre Modem" refers to the router that plugs into the ONT and then on to your computers.


Ah. Thanks. So it has neither a fibre port, nor is it a modem. How confusing of them.

29119 posts

Uber Geek

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Biddle Corp
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  #789099 29-Mar-2013 09:00
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fellaintga:
sbiddle:
SightUnseen: Really, it's a simple case of nothing to see here folks, move along (including the fact that voice will still be provisioned over copper - the writing was definitely on the wall for that aspect). 


Voice over copper is a temporary thing until the ONT can be used. There are a number of issues with this approach right now, hence the need to keep a POTS line.

I would love to write more about this because Telecom's voice solution is definately an interesting approach to a solution, but alas much of what I know isn't public information.



They are going to use the existing infrastructure and use the VOIP gear in the cabinets is my guess so people still use the existing copper which is why they have no VOIP plans yet.  Not really the future but will be good for legacy equipment.


Telecom plan on using the ONT voice ports, but yes it will be back into a NEAX. The ISAM-V cards are an entierly different thing (that's a Chorus offering called baseband IP)

 
 
 
 


130 posts

Master Geek


  #789106 29-Mar-2013 09:19
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plambrechtsen:
SightUnseen: It's not a case of 'should', but 'could'.  It's not our place to dictate to clients how they send their email. Advise - strongly - yes!

Unblocking ports that shouldn't be blocked in the first place isn't offering a 'service'.  If people buy a connection, give it to them unfettered. Don't cripple it, then charge for reinstating what should have been supplied in the first place. 


'Cause when large parts of your IP Address base get blocked by spam companies since zombie botnet infected PC's are spamming all the time that's not the ISP's problem right?

Blocking Port 25 as default is a must for any modern ISP.  And turning it off should only occur when the customer knows what they are doing.


Blocking incoming and outgoing though? If you're going to deliver a curated internet connection, do it in a fashion that causes least issue (and do it properly).

If IPs were static - as they should be given broadband is always on - then simply block offenders, and educate the client base. Yes; Telecom has a large client base, but with the benefits comes responsibility. We introduced outbound spam filtering a while back, and since then outbound spam is less than 1/10th of what it originally was.  The offending clients are now much better educated about keeping malware of their machines, and the client, us and the internet at large are better off for it.

Anyway; the original statement still stands - the pricing is exactly what should have been expected given the company and pricing of existing products.

1948 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user


  #789135 29-Mar-2013 10:36
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SightUnseen: Blocking incoming and outgoing though? If you're going to deliver a curated internet connection, do it in a fashion that causes least issue (and do it properly).

If IPs were static - as they should be given broadband is always on - then simply block offenders, and educate the client base. Yes; Telecom has a large client base, but with the benefits comes responsibility. We introduced outbound spam filtering a while back, and since then outbound spam is less than 1/10th of what it originally was.  The offending clients are now much better educated about keeping malware of their machines, and the client, us and the internet at large are better off for it.

Anyway; the original statement still stands - the pricing is exactly what should have been expected given the company and pricing of existing products.


So you are blocking outbound port 25 since you introduced outbound spam filtering?

We already had spam filtering on our smtp servers, which all customers are able to use.  What blocking port 25 means that people are forced to either use smtp.xtra.co.nz as their outbound server and thus is spam & virus filtered on the way out the door rather than allowing botnet infected PCs running spamming from their PCs directly out to the internet.  And yes we do pro-actively contact customers who send spam via our SMTP server.

The only other way to do it would be to run a transparent smtp proxy on port 25, virus/spam filter it on the way out the door.  But that adds a whole lot of extra complexity for very little gain.

If customers need port 25 then they request it and get it depending on their plan.  This will be introduced on UFB plans in the near term.

The vast majority of customers don't need outbound port 25, only a very very small minority need it.

130 posts

Master Geek


  #789183 29-Mar-2013 11:39
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plambrechtsen:
SightUnseen: Blocking incoming and outgoing though? If you're going to deliver a curated internet connection, do it in a fashion that causes least issue (and do it properly).

If IPs were static - as they should be given broadband is always on - then simply block offenders, and educate the client base. Yes; Telecom has a large client base, but with the benefits comes responsibility. We introduced outbound spam filtering a while back, and since then outbound spam is less than 1/10th of what it originally was.  The offending clients are now much better educated about keeping malware of their machines, and the client, us and the internet at large are better off for it.

Anyway; the original statement still stands - the pricing is exactly what should have been expected given the company and pricing of existing products.


So you are blocking outbound port 25 since you introduced outbound spam filtering?

We already had spam filtering on our smtp servers, which all customers are able to use.  What blocking port 25 means that people are forced to either use smtp.xtra.co.nz as their outbound server and thus is spam & virus filtered on the way out the door rather than allowing botnet infected PCs running spamming from their PCs directly out to the internet.  And yes we do pro-actively contact customers who send spam via our SMTP server.

The only other way to do it would be to run a transparent smtp proxy on port 25, virus/spam filter it on the way out the door.  But that adds a whole lot of extra complexity for very little gain.

If customers need port 25 then they request it and get it depending on their plan.  This will be introduced on UFB plans in the near term.

The vast majority of customers don't need outbound port 25, only a very very small minority need it.


'depending on their plan' highlights this is as a financial decision, not a technical one. 

We filter obvious outgoing spam from our MTAs before it leaves the building. Filtering ≠ blocking. Anyone not using an @xtra account without SSL is a 'small minority'? I know there is the option of using Xtra/Yahoo SMTPs, but these do get blacklisted, which introduces further issues (circular world, isn't it!)

23457 posts

Uber Geek

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  #789206 29-Mar-2013 12:16
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even with port 25 unblocked you still get an IP on a pbl preventing direct delivery so its still no use.




Richard rich.ms

738 posts

Ultimate Geek

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Spark NZ

  #789712 30-Mar-2013 19:13
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SightUnseen: 
'depending on their plan' highlights this is as a financial decision, not a technical one. 



It is not dependant on plan - you can opt out on any plan.




My views are my own, and may not necessarily represent those of my employer.


3209 posts

Uber Geek

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  #790100 1-Apr-2013 07:19
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richms: even with port 25 unblocked you still get an IP on a pbl preventing direct delivery so its still no use.


As long as you have a static IP, you can request a PBL exemption even without your ISP's say so.

784 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user


  #790136 1-Apr-2013 10:05
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Im so annoyed that they are not offering naked broadband....

29119 posts

Uber Geek

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Biddle Corp
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  #790178 1-Apr-2013 12:28
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mattbush: Im so annoyed that they are not offering naked broadband....


Why? It makes no difference whatsoever price wise for the wholesale product in the UFB world. This is very different from the copper world where naked xDSL is cheaper than clothed xDSL.

Telecom's UFB pricing is competitive with other priducts in the market, it's just clearly being subsidised by them at present with the copper line until the ONT can be used for voice in the coming months.


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