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rodhudson

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  #62538 2-Mar-2007 01:21
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Well Cokemaster, I can't disagree with much that you say.    And my starting point was to criticise Telecom for many things, but mainly for their Broadband shenanigans. 

  However, I do think they backed the wrong ' Mobile' horse, and possibly for the wrong reasons.....but that's only conjecture on my part.   I don't think CDMA is a dead duck either [ to mix metaphors ], as with both technologies now the deals have been done, and millions invested, and it wouldn't be easy for anyone to change [horses ?] in either direction.    But 10 years ago.........???    

With regard to to your 'speed' rates, I suspect that this is down to contention/usage requirements, and as there is no doubt that there are far more GSM users than Telecom, you are probably reaping the benefits of being a member of  a minority  group.   [ No offence !]


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  #62539 2-Mar-2007 01:30
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rodhudson: With regard to to your 'speed' rates, I suspect that this is down to contention/usage requirements, and as there is no doubt that there are far more GSM users than Telecom, you are probably reaping the benefits of being a member of  a minority  group.   [ No offence !]


No you are wrong there. Vodafone and Telecom have a 50/50 split of users. 1x RTT is faster than GPRS by quite a bit. 1x EVDO is much faster than WCDMA. Nothing to do with contention or usage.

rodhudson

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  #62540 2-Mar-2007 01:55
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bradstewart:
rodhudson: With regard to to your 'speed' rates, I suspect that this is down to contention/usage requirements, and as there is no doubt that there are far more GSM users than Telecom, you are probably reaping the benefits of being a member of  a minority  group.   [ No offence !]


No you are wrong there. Vodafone and Telecom have a 50/50 split of users. 1x RTT is faster than GPRS by quite a bit. 1x EVDO is much faster than WCDMA. Nothing to do with contention or usage.



Okay.   I stand corrected on that.   But i did say 'I suspect.......'      

However, as a user of both services, it would appear that I am in a minority, [ certainly amongst many of the contributors to this discussion] by favouring the Vodafone one.   And I have no real axe to grind, other than my own empirical experiences.  

Perhaps it is Telecom 'The Company' that I have a problem with, rather than their technology.   But if they do have so many advantages, as several of you seem to think they do, why haven't they made more of them ?     If the technology is better, and they've been around longer, and they can change the number from phone to phone in 2 seconds, and they have roaming agreements with all the countries who have CDMA, why is the split only 50/50  ?  

Whichever way you look at it, I don't think they've done a good job.  

But that's only my opinion !



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#62548 2-Mar-2007 08:22
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rodhudson: However, as a user of both services, it would appear that I am in a minority, [ certainly amongst many of the contributors to this discussion] by favouring the Vodafone one.   And I have no real axe to grind, other than my own empirical experiences.  

Perhaps it is Telecom 'The Company' that I have a problem with, rather than their technology. But if they do have so many advantages, as several of you seem to think they do, why haven't they made more of them ? If the technology is better, and they've been around longer, and they can change the number from phone to phone in 2 seconds, and they have roaming agreements with all the countries who have CDMA, why is the split only 50/50  ?  

Whichever way you look at it, I don't think they've done a good job.  

But that's only my opinion !


And you are entitled to your opinion.

The debate between Vodafone and Telecom is similar to Ford and Holden (or Ford and GM in other countries). It is a matter of personal taste.

Why you are not seeing as many Vodafone people on this thread? Simply because the discussions around "Vodafone this, Telecom that" have been here before, so no one wants to simply feed this much longer. For "company beating" lots of people used other sites, but certainly what we see here most of the times are discussions on specific services and products, not on company's strategic directions, decisions when compared with others. This is just old stuff.

A lot of people agree that GSM and GPRS technology are no better quality, perhaps worse, than CDMA. It simply happens that they have an advantage on the roaming and standardisation part. When it gets to implementation of higher speeds 3G data for example, the lower spectrum used by Telecom allows then to have better peneratration and range, while the high spectrum used by Vodafone requires then to deploy more cellsites, which they are not doing fast enough, causing coverage problems for data users.

While Vodafone works for you (in the sense that you want voice calls, roaming and easy number transferability) for others their requirements are better data speeds, wider 3G coverage or simply a single account unified with their landline, which is well served by Telecom.

You see how it is a futile debate to go on and on with "Vodafone is better then Telecom"? It is simply their marketing, being really good at projecting a dynamic image, offering some services that should have been here two years ago.

Please let this rest in peace. If your neighbor (or fellow forum member) rather use Econet Wireless as a mobile operator, so be it. It's a personal choice.

As for "Telecom a bad joke" as your subject suggests, remember Telecom New Zealand is not mobile only. They work in a range of products and services.







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rodhudson

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#62567 2-Mar-2007 12:22
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Thankyou Freitasm.   I’m delighted to hear that I’m entitled to my own opinion!!  Very good. !!! However, in your   posting you go on to say Mobile Company selection is just a matter of personal preference.   I dispute that.   If you’re in a country where one type works and the other doesn’t, it’s hardly just a matter of choice !!   You say the situation is similar to Holden and Ford.   But as far as I know both cars are driveable anywhere, no matter where they were made or purchased, so the analogy is a poor one. You say   A lot of people agree that GSM and GPRS technology are no better quality, perhaps worse, than CDMA. It simply happens that they have an advantage on the roaming and standardisation part.”       SIMPLY ???       Come on !!!   That’s a huge advantage.  You also ask why there aren’t many Vodafone users taking part in this discussion.  That’s because this isn’t about Vodafone.  It’s about Telecom.   If you’d bothered to read this topic from the beginning you’d have seen that it didn’t start off being much about Mobiles at all, but about Telecom’s failure/inability/refusal/whatever… to deliver reasonable Broadband services.  It’s about overcharging, and slow speeds, and failure to deliver to rural areas, and foot dragging and general inefficiencies.   So don’t remind me that Telecom do more than Mobiles, because that’s where we all started.   Do your research !!   [As I’ve been told more than once !!]        [No Offence…} You say  “This is all old stuff “.     That being the case, how is it that there have been over 35 postings and close on  550 viewings  in little over a day, if there’s no interest ?      The facts don’t seem to bear out that assertion. Finally…….[You’ll be pleased to hear !!]…..you ask me to “Let it Rest in Peace “. OKAY. P.S. I have found this posting very illuminating, as it gives one a deeper insight into the ‘Modus Operandi’ of  Geekzone.   Thank you.

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  #62572 2-Mar-2007 13:11
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Feeding the troll here:
There are quite a few alternatives to Telecom (xtra provided) broadband if you don't like the services that they provide:
Complete landline alternatives (with cable for internet, though limited to only a few places)
  • Telstraclear

Then there are wholesalers like
  • Orcon
  • Woosh
  • Slingshot
  • WXC
  • Telstraclear

And then there are the wireless providers:
  • Woosh
  • Vodafone (GPRS/WCDMA/HSPDA)
  • Telecom (CDMA 1X/EVDO/EVDO rev A)
  • Econet (if they ever get going)
  • Telstraclear (with their test network that they're wanting to build.
  • Rural wireless solutions
If you live in some areas there are regional wifi/wimax networks as well as some alternative data networks (ie. Palmerston North has a limited one with Inspire/Massey).
There are a few satellite options too, that were listed on the forums.

In many cases with the wireless/satellite options, you don't even need a landline too!
Many a time here on the forums, people were unhappy with the service provided and have switched providers.

Going onto the mobile part which you railed on about how 'Telecoms monopolist polices' have meant that CDMA devices sold here in NZ don't have SIM cards. Even if they did, what benefit would they allow? You can't exactly get a GSM sim card - put it in a CDMA handset, and then expect it to work magically. When asked how many countries had RUIM (the CDMA version of the SIM card), only one was provided, by Brad. Before making blanket statements about a single operator and their implementation of the CDMA standard look at the details first.

There has been an explanation why you can't bring in imported handsets and connect them locally. I'd also like to point out that a lot of GSM operators lock their handsets to their SIM cards too, or have systems like Musicstores which will only accept phones purchased within the same country (or running a specific firmware version).

You are able to roam on CDMA as pointed out above. Not all countries have CDMA networks, but in saying that not all countries have GSM networks either. *gasp* If there isn't a CDMA network present in the country you are visiting, a loan phone or a worldphone can be an option. Roaming on GSM isn't painless either - the first time I did it, I was only able to receive and send text messages - calls would fail (I was on Prepaid credit roam then)... second time around it worked flawlessly (that time it was On Account)...

Furthermore - roaming while extremely useful is not used by a lot of people. Mostly the few of us who travel overseas, and even then we try and use it sparingly in fear of excessive $30 a MB data charges. Many people who use cellphones use them in NZ because believe it or not - NZ population is not a flock of migrating birds flying from country to country with only GSM networks.

And with statements like CDMA 1X speeds being due to contention issues - it just leave me shaking my head. GPRS and CDMA 1X speeds have been well documented - I suggest you look at them.
Though in saying that - from the very first post this seems to be a rant designed to bring responses like this and to ignore logical responses which have already been posting.

And finally lets put this to rest - Geekzone is definitely not a bunch of CDMA treehuggers or cheerleaders for certain telcos. I guess you could state that proof of this is that this thread still exists and is open etc? Because if we were the big CDMA loving treehuggers - we might not like this thread. ;)






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rodhudson

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#62582 2-Mar-2007 15:04
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Hello Rogue.    I didn’t start this topic feeling like a ‘Troll’,  although you’re all doing a pretty good job of making me out to be one!    It’s not my intention at all. 

 
And I certainly don’t feel as though I’m fitting the definition and descriptions  to be found in the thread on Tolls that I read on the Geekzone  Web related Forum.

 
Be that as it may,  I enjoyed reading your post, which was clear, informative, detailed and helpful.   So thank you for that. However, in spite of what you say in your closing sentence, I do feel that this thread will be cut shortly, so I’d like to make a couple of points before that happens.

 
Firstly, I do not think Telecom do a good job.  [ Surprise, surprise !!]   I never have done.   Most of you think they do.  Fine.  Let’s leave it that.    However, I would point out that my dissatisfaction with previously Nationally owned Telcos is not restricted to NZ Telecom.   Previously State Owned Companies all over the world have started with tremendous advantages over private and independent companies, and for the most part have failed to make them count.   

 
Most were previously divisions of the General Post Office, and they have all ‘lucked into’ a situation where there businesses have become amongst the most important and influential in the world……and the majority aren’t really equipped to deal with that.   Or at least, in my book, haven’t done so.


 
Secondly, I’m not an expert in these matters  [ painfully obvious I hear you all cry ….in unison….]  I am a ‘user’, and my basic position is what I find works for me , and what doesn’t.    I visit many countries, but mostly the US, South Africa and the UK.   In any of those countries I can take my handset, pop in my local sim card for that country, and I’m in business.   It’s not even ‘Roaming’.  It’s the ability to get service with the least possible amount of hassle. 

As for Broadband, I don’t have it here.   I have the slowest dial-up connection in the country, frequently downloading files at 650 BYTES per second.!!   You’re telling me that is acceptable from the Main Telco in the country ?
 

I am honestly not trying to be difficult or controversial.   I’m sure if any of you had that sort of service, you would soon feel a little less antagonistic towards my point of view.
 

Finally your paragraph about putting a SIM card into CDMA phone is not worthy of the rest of your post.   I have never criticised Telecom because you can’t do that.   Only for adopting a more limited system, when others were available, in the first place, as pointed out by several of your colleagues.
 

Anyway, I’ve enjoyed the thread, and learned a lot.
  At the start there were lots of contributors, but now it just seems to be me against the Geekzone ‘Posse’.   And that wasn’t my intention. 

 
Also, I’m not sure I’m well suited to this type of discussion.   I take things too much to heart, and brood over them.  Can’t let them go. 

Not good.
 

Cheers.



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  #62587 2-Mar-2007 15:22
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cokemaster
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  #62593 2-Mar-2007 15:34
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All I can say is:
  • If you are wanting to connect local handsets on a foreign network - how is it a single operators fault? There has been a link posted why they can't be connected locally (but still can roam). Remember that a lot of GSM devices sold overseas are often locked to operators networks so it isn't exclusive to CDMA networks (though in saying that CDMA networks are much more stricter).
  • Despite all the 'problems' that have been brought up in this thread with CDMA, it does offer some advantages like better data speeds compared to GPRS.
  • My name is not rogue.
  • In your first post, it was you who described SIM cards on CDMA devices with "With their monopolistic 'No Sim Card' policies"
  • If you are experiencing slow dialup connections - dialup is not broadband, however like broadband it is heavily dependent on the line quality. Outside interference can cause issues particularly in rural areas, so perhaps Satellite or mobile data is better suited.
  • Coming from a rural setting, I had to travel 30 minutes to Hastings to get ADSL for 5 hours and then was stuck with dialup. Once I left the area, ADSL was offered. I also have only just had a new landline installed recently so my primary communication means was my GSM SE P910/Vodem and then a HTC Apache which handles my voice and data (1X and EVDO) needs - I've only just got a landline (I did have access to one previously but it wasn't mine).
  • There is no geekzone 'posse'
  • Troll




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mclayma
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  #62607 2-Mar-2007 17:23
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cokemaster: All I can say is:
  • If you are wanting to connect local handsets on a foreign network - how is it a single operators fault? There has been a link posted why they can't be connected locally (but still can roam). Remember that a lot of GSM devices sold overseas are often locked to operators networks so it isn't exclusive to CDMA networks (though in saying that CDMA networks are much more stricter).
  • Despite all the 'problems' that have been brought up in this thread with CDMA, it does offer some advantages like better data speeds compared to GPRS.
  • My name is not rogue.
  • In your first post, it was you who described SIM cards on CDMA devices with "With their monopolistic 'No Sim Card' policies"
  • If you are experiencing slow dialup connections - dialup is not broadband, however like broadband it is heavily dependent on the line quality. Outside interference can cause issues particularly in rural areas, so perhaps Satellite or mobile data is better suited.
  • Coming from a rural setting, I had to travel 30 minutes to Hastings to get ADSL for 5 hours and then was stuck with dialup. Once I left the area, ADSL was offered. I also have only just had a new landline installed recently so my primary communication means was my GSM SE P910/Vodem and then a HTC Apache which handles my voice and data (1X and EVDO) needs - I've only just got a landline (I did have access to one previously but it wasn't mine).
  • There is no geekzone 'posse'
  • Troll


May I please join the Geekzone Posse and go troll hunting.

freitasm
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#62612 2-Mar-2007 18:16
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rodhudson: Thankyou Freitasm.   I’m delighted to hear that I’m entitled to my own opinion!!  Very good. !!! However, in your   posting you go on to say Mobile Company selection is just a matter of personal preference.   I dispute that.   If you’re in a country where one type works and the other doesn’t, it’s hardly just a matter of choice !!  

It is a matter of personal preference. You are not forced to use one or another. Both mobile networks in New Zealand work well, what are you talking about?

rodhudson: You also ask why there aren’t many Vodafone users taking part in this discussion.  That’s because this isn’t about Vodafone.  It’s about Telecom.   If you’d bothered to read this topic from the beginning you’d have seen that it didn’t start off being much about Mobiles at all, but about Telecom’s failure/inability/refusal/whatever… to deliver reasonable Broadband services.  It’s about overcharging, and slow speeds, and failure to deliver to rural areas, and foot dragging and general inefficiencies.   So don’t remind me that Telecom do more than Mobiles, because that’s where we all started.  

It's about Vodafone when you start talking about SIM cards, which is a technology which is clearly not part of the CDMA standard so far.

I read the topic from the start. I receive a notification of all posts on Geekzone and I read them all. You started talking about the non-SIM policy, so the topic had mobile in it from the start.

rodhudson: Do your research !!   [[As I’ve been told more than once !!]  


"Do your research?" Have you checked my credentials? So far I haven't seen yours.

rodhudson: That being the case, how is it that there have been over 35 postings and close on  550 viewings  in little over a day, if there’s no interest ?      The facts don’t seem to bear out that assertion.

It is old stuff, people are curious to see if there's anything new, but clearly not, just someone else ranting about Telecom.

rodhudson: Finally…….[You’ll be pleased to hear !!]…..you ask me to “Let it Rest in Peace “. OKAY. P.S. I have found this posting very illuminating, as it gives one a deeper insight into the ‘Modus Operandi’ of  Geekzone.   Thank you.

The "modus operandi" is simple: no trolling is allowed. When people start trolling with arguments that are disjoint and don't stack up that's when I join the fight club.
 And I tell you, I am not happy when I have to come in to a discussion like this, where there's no end to an argument when one of the parts can not see the whole picture.







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#62614 2-Mar-2007 18:27
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rodhudson: Hello Rogue.    I didn’t start this topic feeling like a ‘Troll’,  although you’re all doing a pretty good job of making me out to be one!    It’s not my intention at all.

You are doing it yourself. Who's "Rogue"? There's no one with this nick here, so obviously it's an indication of mood...


rodhudson: However, in spite of what you say in your closing sentence, I do feel that this thread will be cut shortly, so I’d like to make a couple of points before that happens.

 Firstly, I do not think Telecom do a good job.  [ Surprise, surprise !!]   I never have done.   Most of you think they do.  Fine.  Let’s leave it that.    However, I would point out that my dissatisfaction with previously Nationally owned Telcos is not restricted to NZ Telecom.   Previously State Owned Companies all over the world have started with tremendous advantages over private and independent companies, and for the most part have failed to make them count.  

First you are just repeating yoursel, making the case for locking the thread even easier for my quick finger to click the mouse button on that option. Second it appears you have a political disagreement with the (then) government who created Telecom New Zealand and how the market was shaped after that. Have you thought of contacting your MP and complaining about this? Perhaps this would a very effective way?


rodhudson: I visit many countries, but mostly the US, South Africa and the UK.   In any of those countries I can take my handset, pop in my local sim card for that country, and I’m in business.   It’s not even ‘Roaming’.  It’s the ability to get service with the least possible amount of hassle.


Well if you are not at all interested in roaming (because you are not using it) then you are only interested in the handsets. The main advantage of GSM is not being able to insert a SIM card, but to actually keep your number while abroad. You are obviously not interested in that, so why keep hammering the SIM card and roaming? Since you don't want to keep your New Zealand number while overseas, you only need to get yourself a parallel imported, cheap, GSM handset and use it when overseas. PErhaps since you don't worry about having your New Zealand number overseas you could even try a Telecom CDMA, since the coverage is wider, the performance is better... As  I stated before, a matter of personal preference.


rodhudson: As for Broadband, I don’t have it here.   I have the slowest dial-up connection in the country, frequently downloading files at 650 BYTES per second.!!   You’re telling me that is acceptable from the Main Telco in the country ? 

Is a Telecom landline your only option? Can't you use Vodafone 3G, Telecom 3G, NZ Wireless, Woosh, TelstraClear? Sattelite option is available over the whole New Zealand, use it!


rodhudson: I am honestly not trying to be difficult or controversial.   I’m sure if any of you had that sort of service, you would soon feel a little less antagonistic towards my point of view.


You are being difficult because it's been explained before that there are options. Investigate them!






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rodhudson

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  #62621 2-Mar-2007 20:13
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freitasm:

You are doing it yourself. Who's "Rogue"? There's no one with this nick here, so obviously it's an indication of mood...


Under Cokemaster's stuff on the left of the post it says: "Cokemaster....uber geek....moderator...Subscriber.....ROGUE.."  So what is that, if it's not a 'nick' ?

I'm being called a Troll, given stick righht, left and centre, had words twisted, taken out of context, and [I suspect] deliberately misunderstood, mainly because I have what appears to be an unpopular viewpoint........And now I'm being accused of being discourteous and making up names, when they're there in black and white for all to see.

If it's not a nickname, what is it, and why is it there ?   If you're offended, Cokemaster, I apologise.   But I'd still like to know what it is. 

And I never at any point said that there weren't two workable networks in NZ.   I said that GSM [whether Vodaphone or another operator] gives you more options world-wide.   What is wrong with that ?


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  #62624 2-Mar-2007 20:32
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I aint sen anything like this for ages!

Telecom were kinda stuck with CDMA for their next upgrade path, compatible with AMPS and same frequencies. Reasonable network overall, geat range though and consistent though comparibly thin and robotic voice quality compared to some.

Roaming on Telecom is better and overall cheaper than Vodafone, even for data.
The catch is you will need a GSM phone for the remainder of countries not perating CDMA bands..... or the dual-network Samsung w531... a choice of two different networks...Landmark product.
And you have a UK number when using GSM... but this will change.

Wacth across the tasman, 15Mbits over the 800Mhz band... guess whats coming !!!!!!!!!

Their DSL is just pitiful, I must admit.

I MUST see that document on Telecoms and that ETACS spectrum!!!! pm me please when found....


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  #62626 2-Mar-2007 20:43
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rodhudson:

Under Cokemaster's stuff on the left of the post it says: "Cokemaster....uber geek....moderator...Subscriber.....ROGUE.."  So what is that, if it's not a 'nick' ?



And I never at any point said that there weren't two workable networks in NZ.   I said that GSM [whether Vodaphone or another operator] gives you more options world-wide.   What is wrong with that ?


Hence the topic title ' NZ Telecom a bad joke.... '?




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