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Mr Snotty
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  # 851671 9-Jul-2013 15:46
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GregV: ^ no - just busy apparently


Many to get through hah, patience is key as we are currently going through all of them.




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  # 851672 9-Jul-2013 15:51
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I've mentioned it in PMs to a couple of you, but auto-confirmations would have gone a long way in reducing enquiry calls. As it stands I have no idea whether my order went through.

Just need to take a deep breath, and replace the F5 key on my keyboard :)

 
 
 
 


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  # 851677 9-Jul-2013 15:58
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got my conformation email just now

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  # 851678 9-Jul-2013 16:00
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michaelmurfy:
zena1919:

Yes well I tried just now and I am afraid to say TNZ is once again not ready. My address was not able to be ordered on the web site as usual. I called a mate in Chorus and confirmed the cabinet I was on was capable and the line attenuation was fine (got excited). Couldnt order online called contact centre, sat in queue for 15 minutes and was told cant order. Asked to "talk to someone who knew what they are doing".... another 10 minutes on hold. Finally came back to me and said "you are right you can order it" you need to pay installation fee. I said I paid $160 for an SDP last year I dont need another one and was told sorry you must pay for the connection fee. I said send out the modem or I will use my own and she said I cant. I said perhaps I will go to a competitor to which she replied you can so I am off then... after 30 years with NZ Post and TNZ I have finally had enough.


All customers regardless if they've got a master filter or not have to pay the $99 connection fee, this covers the chorus tech coming to your house to check everything out (I assume by SDP you mean Master Filter service delivery point?) and also covers the VDSL modem and everything in between. BigHammer was in the same boat as you, he currently has a master filter but sees value in this and even I will be if I got VDSL installed since I currently have a master filter, but still for better speeds it's worth it, you're getting a good modem and a tech around to your house to verify and connect everything. It's important we triple-check all installations to make sure nothing is going to get in between you and VDSL since from experience some customers have got a master filter but they could be installed incorrectly or the internal wiring heading to the SDP is shoddy which can degrade performance, or they "think" they've got a master filter installed but have not. Full wiring is supplied so the tech will install Cat5 to the SDP if needed.

As in the first part of your message we've only launched this yesterday to the public, most customers have ordered successfully and I've heard some awesome things but it sounds like you might be on the fringe of VDSL coverage, we are working on these small bugs and appreciate the patience from our customers in the process.

Cheers


OK so a unqualified technician wants to check the 1m Cat 6 cable between the ETP and the modem and charge me $99 get real guys....... fringe? I am 350m form a cabinet that is 3 months old. 4dB loss when limit is 10.8db @ 160, This is Greek Zone mate - 30 years in the industry I have learned something. Once size doent fit all. Other RSPs will install for free to swap me pity TNZ doesnt value the business with a customer who has remained loyal since 1982.

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  # 851693 9-Jul-2013 16:08
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zena1919: [snip]
OK so a unqualified technician wants to check the 1m Cat 6 cable between the ETP and the modem and charge me $99 get real guys....... fringe? I am 350m form a cabinet that is 3 months old. 4dB loss when limit is 10.8db @ 160, This is Greek Zone mate - 30 years in the industry I have learned something. Once size doent fit all. Other RSPs will install for free to swap me pity TNZ doesnt value the business with a customer who has remained loyal since 1982.


You're being a bit unfair here. It's a policy that all VDSL customers have a mandatory full install including master filter. We're not saying you don't know what you're talking about or that your current wiring is bad (Sounds like you do, and it isn't)...

Telecom has learnt over many years however that home wiring is a HUGE contributor to sub-standard DSL experiences and VDSL will amplify that issue greatly if self installs were permitted.

As such, the process and policy is one size for everyone. There will always be some individuals that already have most or all of what they need in place, but historically, there were a LOT of people that were convinced their wiring was fine and it just wasn't. It's the best approach to ensure the best possible connection for everyone to make the install mandatory.

Making individual exceptions will cause more pain and cost for us as well as customers, as well as inevitably leading to exceptions being made that shouldn't be made.

Sorry if this is a dealbreaker for you. This policy is about making sure customers get the best possible install and minimising support calls that we _KNOW_ come from the self install customer base.

Knowing what I know about VDSL installs and the impact of wiring on performance, I am amazed that any ISPs are prepared to accept self installs.

Cheers - N





--

 

Please note all comments are the product of my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.


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  # 851699 9-Jul-2013 16:26
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zena1919:

OK so a unqualified technician wants to check the 1m Cat 6 cable between the ETP and the modem and charge me $99 get real guys....... fringe? I am 350m form a cabinet that is 3 months old. 4dB loss when limit is 10.8db @ 160, This is Greek Zone mate - 30 years in the industry I have learned something. Once size doent fit all. Other RSPs will install for free to swap me pity TNZ doesnt value the business with a customer who has remained loyal since 1982.


After 30 years in the industry you should know that there are plenty of people who claim to be experts. But a big company like telecom will have the lest 'net issue' if they follow a consistent process. A smaller more "boutique" ISP can probably be more flexible. Personly I prefer Telecom over a smaller ISP because I've found the speed to be consistently good and I don't 'feel like' they penny pinch over international bandwidth and trying to push too many customers into a pool of bandwidth that is too small. Just my experience.




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  # 851701 9-Jul-2013 16:27
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It's worth noting that a Chorus visit and wiring is mandatory for *every* VDSL2 install now, and the cost of this is a monthly fee that is passed on by Chorus rather than the upfront installation cost which was up to $400 for a new POTS off VDSL2 install.'

 
 
 
 


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  # 851707 9-Jul-2013 16:43
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Talkiet:
zena1919: [snip]
OK so a unqualified technician wants to check the 1m Cat 6 cable between the ETP and the modem and charge me $99 get real guys....... fringe? I am 350m form a cabinet that is 3 months old. 4dB loss when limit is 10.8db @ 160, This is Greek Zone mate - 30 years in the industry I have learned something. Once size doent fit all. Other RSPs will install for free to swap me pity TNZ doesnt value the business with a customer who has remained loyal since 1982.


You're being a bit unfair here. It's a policy that all VDSL customers have a mandatory full install including master filter. We're not saying you don't know what you're talking about or that your current wiring is bad (Sounds like you do, and it isn't)...

Telecom has learnt over many years however that home wiring is a HUGE contributor to sub-standard DSL experiences and VDSL will amplify that issue greatly if self installs were permitted.

As such, the process and policy is one size for everyone. There will always be some individuals that already have most or all of what they need in place, but historically, there were a LOT of people that were convinced their wiring was fine and it just wasn't. It's the best approach to ensure the best possible connection for everyone to make the install mandatory.

Making individual exceptions will cause more pain and cost for us as well as customers, as well as inevitably leading to exceptions being made that shouldn't be made.

Sorry if this is a dealbreaker for you. This policy is about making sure customers get the best possible install and minimising support calls that we _KNOW_ come from the self install customer base.

Knowing what I know about VDSL installs and the impact of wiring on performance, I am amazed that any ISPs are prepared to accept self installs.

Cheers - N



N - I certainly hope you are not technical.

You at least should read what is said "to be fair". What I said was that there was a "1m Cat 6 cable between the ETP and the modem".

There is NO inhouse wiring to impact the performance.

The grease filled cable comes from the street penetrates the home wall and is installed in the ETP as per PTC106 and as ratified by the TCF this month.

Please dont defend the indefensible by ignoring from the facts.

If the answer is it is POLICY then that is the answer and as a customer I will choose to aeccpt it or not.

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  # 851708 9-Jul-2013 16:45
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zena1919:
If the answer is it is POLICY then that is the answer and as a customer I will choose to aeccpt it or not.


If you don't accept the $99 fee, you get no VDSL, it's really as simple as that.




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  # 851720 9-Jul-2013 16:51
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zena1919:[snip]

N - I certainly hope you are not technical.

You at least should read what is said "to be fair". What I said was that there was a "1m Cat 6 cable between the ETP and the modem".

There is NO inhouse wiring to impact the performance.

The grease filled cable comes from the street penetrates the home wall and is installed in the ETP as per PTC106 and as ratified by the TCF this month.

Please dont defend the indefensible by ignoring from the facts.

If the answer is it is POLICY then that is the answer and as a customer I will choose to aeccpt it or not.


As has been pointed out, it's policy, driven by Chorus requirements and by the fact that an awful lot of people that think they don't need a full install DO in fact need a full install.

Telecom isn't interested in a repeat of the self install issues that occurred with ADSL. I fully accept your install is probably fine as is. However for every one of you there will be 20 people that think their install is fine as well... Quite apart from the Chorus requirement, do you think a responsible ISP should allow people that are convinced they don't need a full install do a self install? Especially given that an established history of hundreds of thousands of installs shows that a significant portion of those people are wrong?

Cheers - N





--

 

Please note all comments are the product of my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.


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  # 851721 9-Jul-2013 16:54
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mcraenz:
zena1919:

OK so a unqualified technician wants to check the 1m Cat 6 cable between the ETP and the modem and charge me $99 get real guys....... fringe? I am 350m form a cabinet that is 3 months old. 4dB loss when limit is 10.8db @ 160, This is Greek Zone mate - 30 years in the industry I have learned something. Once size doent fit all. Other RSPs will install for free to swap me pity TNZ doesnt value the business with a customer who has remained loyal since 1982.


After 30 years in the industry you should know that there are plenty of people who claim to be experts. But a big company like telecom will have the lest 'net issue' if they follow a consistent process. A smaller more "boutique" ISP can probably be more flexible. Personly I prefer Telecom over a smaller ISP because I've found the speed to be consistently good and I don't 'feel like' they penny pinch over international bandwidth and trying to push too many customers into a pool of bandwidth that is too small. Just my experience.


Mate that one has gone left field... wondering what my moan about paying $99 for someone to look at a PTC106 compliant ETP with a 1m long Cat 6 cable has to do with penny pinching international bandwidth....

We could debate that one for ever but it would be boring as most penny pinching RSPs will point to the profits that TNZ garners from its arms length monopoly called Southern Cross (BTW I do not work for an RSP nor a TNZ competitor but assume you probably work for TNZ or Southern Cross from your Warkworth photo?).

Bandwidth grade of service decisions are made across all networks regardless of wether they are TNZ or anyone else. Interestingly now that TNZ and Chorus have seperated TNZ will start paying commercial rates for backhaul as of next year and will need to make similar decisions.

Throughput is always limited by the thinest pipe.

Now back to my $99 fee to get someone to look at my new ETP and my cat 6 cable which is 1m long now that my friend is a rip off!!!!!!

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  # 851723 9-Jul-2013 16:55
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try telling the WOF guy that your car is perfectly maintained and doesn't need a new WOF every six months




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


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  # 851725 9-Jul-2013 17:01
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michaelmurfy:
zena1919:
If the answer is it is POLICY then that is the answer and as a customer I will choose to aeccpt it or not.


If you don't accept the $99 fee, you get no VDSL, it's really as simple as that.


Perhaps you should look outside your Victoria Street Ivory tower. I assume you are from TNZ marketing and you can see the Vodafone building not far from you who now has 30% of the broadband market after the TCL purchase. 

Telecom do not have a monopoly on VDSL. It is a wholesale offering from Chorus.

VDSL is available from others.

What you are saying is I need to buy from others then that is OK but I am certain Simon would love your recommendadtion to buy from someone else.

This has been fun but it is now 5p, so you have probably gone to the pub by now.....

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  # 851728 9-Jul-2013 17:02
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zena1919:
mcraenz:
zena1919:

OK so a unqualified technician wants to check the 1m Cat 6 cable between the ETP and the modem and charge me $99 get real guys....... fringe? I am 350m form a cabinet that is 3 months old. 4dB loss when limit is 10.8db @ 160, This is Greek Zone mate - 30 years in the industry I have learned something. Once size doent fit all. Other RSPs will install for free to swap me pity TNZ doesnt value the business with a customer who has remained loyal since 1982.


After 30 years in the industry you should know that there are plenty of people who claim to be experts. But a big company like telecom will have the lest 'net issue' if they follow a consistent process. A smaller more "boutique" ISP can probably be more flexible. Personly I prefer Telecom over a smaller ISP because I've found the speed to be consistently good and I don't 'feel like' they penny pinch over international bandwidth and trying to push too many customers into a pool of bandwidth that is too small. Just my experience.


Mate that one has gone left field... wondering what my moan about paying $99 for someone to look at a PTC106 compliant ETP with a 1m long Cat 6 cable has to do with penny pinching international bandwidth....

We could debate that one for ever but it would be boring as most penny pinching RSPs will point to the profits that TNZ garners from its arms length monopoly called Southern Cross (BTW I do not work for an RSP nor a TNZ competitor but assume you probably work for TNZ or Southern Cross from your Warkworth photo?).

Bandwidth grade of service decisions are made across all networks regardless of wether they are TNZ or anyone else. Interestingly now that TNZ and Chorus have seperated TNZ will start paying commercial rates for backhaul as of next year and will need to make similar decisions.

Throughput is always limited by the thinest pipe.

Now back to my $99 fee to get someone to look at my new ETP and my cat 6 cable which is 1m long now that my friend is a rip off!!!!!!



No I don't work for an RSP. (I work for St John Ambulance). And yes it is Warkworth, good spotting. Just a photo I took ages ago.

Any way I get that it's frustrating to pay the install fee. But this could just as easily be called an admin fee. And apart from the Chorus visit to your house don't they have to go the cabinet to re-patch something or is it all done in software? If they have to physically do anything that requires time and travel then I think $99 is very reasonable.






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  # 851730 9-Jul-2013 17:05
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zena1919:
michaelmurfy:
zena1919:
If the answer is it is POLICY then that is the answer and as a customer I will choose to aeccpt it or not.


If you don't accept the $99 fee, you get no VDSL, it's really as simple as that.


Perhaps you should look outside your Victoria Street Ivory tower. I assume you are from TNZ marketing and you can see the Vodafone building not far from you who now has 30% of the broadband market after the TCL purchase. 


Please stop making assumptions. Michael IS NOT in Auckland. Everytime someone assumes something, there's a chance of getting it wrong.

zena1919: Telecom do not have a monopoly on VDSL. It is a wholesale offering from Chorus.

VDSL is available from others.

What you are saying is I need to buy from others then that is OK but I am certain Simon would love your recommendadtion to buy from someone else.


It's available from others, who will also charge the $99 fee. Take it or leave it.

zena1919: This has been fun but it is now 5p, so you have probably gone to the pub by now.....


This is uncalled for. Your account is being watched. 






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