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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 870035 1-Aug-2013 15:12
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+1 for Fibre if available.

Worth calling up and checking speeds on VDSL though, I know someone who is getting over 50Mb/s on VDSL. According to the helpdesk I wouldn't even get 19Mb/s if I went for it.

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  Reply # 870076 1-Aug-2013 15:41
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sbiddle:
PaulBags:
Also I still don't like the idea of VOIP sharing my internet service, I'd prefer a separate service on the ONT. Is anyone doing this? If not, why not? Surely it will be a requirement to have a basic service like this available when the copper network eventually gets switched off?


VoIP can be delivered to the ONT using the voice ports, or can be delivered over a internet connection using the CIR. Both deliver the same guaranteed QoS - there is absolutely no reason why you would deliver voice over an additional UNNI port.


So, ISP voip is nothing like skype? It's a dedicated, seperate service no matter what? And if you can just plug your phone into the ont, why doesn't telecom have it working yet?

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  Reply # 870080 1-Aug-2013 15:45
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PaulBags: 
So, ISP voip is nothing like skype? It's a dedicated, seperate service no matter what? And if you can just plug your phone into the ont, why doesn't telecom have it working yet?


It can be a dedicated service, with it's own bandwidth allocation. Telecom don't 'have it working yet' because there is a lot of infrastructure to set up and test to ensure the service performs to the required levels, it's not just a "you just plug it in and magic!".




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  Reply # 870095 1-Aug-2013 15:59
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Inphinity:
PaulBags: 
So, ISP voip is nothing like skype? It's a dedicated, seperate service no matter what? And if you can just plug your phone into the ont, why doesn't telecom have it working yet?


It can be a dedicated service, with it's own bandwidth allocation. Telecom don't 'have it working yet' because there is a lot of infrastructure to set up and test to ensure the service performs to the required levels, it's not just a "you just plug it in and magic!".


I can only agree that it's very complex delivering the VoIP service on the ONT.  Good (and robust Telco grade) things take time.

cbrpilot:
chevrolux: At the moment basic services like a
static IP and port 25 aren't available on Telecom Fibre but they are on
VDSL so bear that in mind.
Correct.  Those services will
both be available on Fibre very very soon, however, so if you do go
Fibre, you will not be long without them.


What Dave said... Static IP and Port 25 will be here VERY soon.

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  Reply # 870144 1-Aug-2013 16:52
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Please excuse my ignorance, it was after all why I asked questions. I guess I assumed for some reason that if it's a dedicated phone service cfh/chorus/enable/whatever would provide that part of the infrastructure and all telecom would have to do is plug in. Sometimes I forget that telcos don't just resell chorus lines, that they actually have to have something at the other end of them. Probably because of when chorus was part of telecom, and all the other ISPs wanted a share of lines that weren't theirs, and expected telecom to just let them use their equipment. At the time I didn't even know about the equipment needed at the ISP end. I often find myself relying on my oldest memories even if I've learnt better at some point, I swear I'll have alzheimer's by the time I'm 30. People here have knowledge about networks (and probably many other things) orders of magnitudes above my own.

I feel like I asked 'how do I swim' and then sbiddle chucked me into a rip tide for my trouble. Then compounded my situation with wilful ignorance, instead of figuring it out. I should do my own research and keep up with stuff; and not be a prick.

Still curious about the bandwidth available to each 'UNNI port' (and I guess also the ?ATA ports? too), which was the question I really wanted to ask before I decided to also be an ignorant bigoted prick about VOIP.


If anyone has links to where I could find out more about how ONT's and the fibre network works, something a laymen could understand but more than 'plug in cablez, nao youz haz internetz', I'd appreciate it and hopefully bug you guys with less ignorant questions.

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  Reply # 870259 1-Aug-2013 19:38
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PaulBags: Please excuse my ignorance, it was after all why I asked questions.


Sorry if my previous response came off as snarky or condescending - I had interpreted your comment as a dig at Telecom and the delays in getting a full VOIP service implemented, rather than as simply a question wanting to understand why.




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  Reply # 870308 1-Aug-2013 20:54
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Telecom don't 'have it working yet' because there is a lot of infrastructure to set up and test to ensure the service performs to the required levels, it's not just a "you just plug it in and magic!".


Off topic for this thread, so apologis to the OP, but I am over seeing people stick up for Telecom in regards to VoIP.

The BoF subdivisions got done 5+ years and Telecom failed to provide a IP voice service then. They should have been working on it non-stop since that balls up to get them to a point where they can offer a new service.
Yes I am well aware of the extra things they need to worry about in terms of dial-up support and the like but seriously, it's been in the making for so so long I just can't help but think they have dropped the ball, MAJORLY. They are the incumbent for most NZers and should have 'next gen' service ready NOW. They still have the NEAX's to support legacy stuff for the next 10 years if they really have to keep legacy services running.

And don't think I am a Telecom basher, I am reasonably supportive of them. We are even Telecom dealers and I don't mind recommending them to customers as support (especially Business) is second to none. They also quite clearly have the best systems in place for provisioning new lines and making changes. Very seldom is there an issue with that.

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  Reply # 870329 1-Aug-2013 21:17
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chevrolux:  They should have been working on it non-stop since that balls up to get them to a point where they can offer a new service.


They have been. You clearly don't realise how much their abandoned PLV project cost..

Telecom can't just do a 2talk and build up a few Asterisk and Freeswitch boxes to deliver a VoIP service to replace the entire NZ PSTN infrastructure. Nobody else in the world has got close to trying to do what Telecom ultimately have to do - and it's not just about delivering VoIP to their customers, it's about replacing infrastructure that carries a significant % of national and international voice traffic including traffic that isn't even originated or destined for Telecom customers.

Telecom's VoIP solution based of the NEAX's is both innovative and also a step backwards, but delivering a rock solid solution is critical.




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  Reply # 870364 1-Aug-2013 22:20
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sbiddle:
chevrolux:  They should have been working on it non-stop since that balls up to get them to a point where they can offer a new service.


They have been. You clearly don't realise how much their abandoned PLV project cost..

Telecom can't just do a 2talk and build up a few Asterisk and Freeswitch boxes to deliver a VoIP service to replace the entire NZ PSTN infrastructure. Nobody else in the world has got close to trying to do what Telecom ultimately have to do - and it's not just about delivering VoIP to their customers, it's about replacing infrastructure that carries a significant % of national and international voice traffic including traffic that isn't even originated or destined for Telecom customers.

Telecom's VoIP solution based of the NEAX's is both innovative and also a step backwards, but delivering a rock solid solution is critical.





You also forgot about that little thing where Chorus was split out as a separate listed company and all the internal business change that occurred because of that which was far from trivial.



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  Reply # 870671 2-Aug-2013 13:18
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@ all thanks for all the advice and explanations. some of it has gone over my head (actually) but it's simple to say i will go for fibre as adviced.

@ chevrolux NP for going off topic, i'm learning a lot from the discussion

@ cbrpilot i have no idea what static IP and port 25 are, but i'm going to assume that if i don't currently use them or am not aware that i do, then it won't affect me when i move to fibre in the near future?

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  Reply # 870677 2-Aug-2013 13:25
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tilde: @ cbrpilot i have no idea what static IP and port 25 are, but i'm going to assume that if i don't currently use them or am not aware that i do, then it won't affect me when i move to fibre in the near future?


Correct, if you don't know, you won't need it ;)

Mostly this would effect people hosting a mail server or similar.




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  Reply # 870844 2-Aug-2013 16:47
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Inphinity:
tilde: @ cbrpilot i have no idea what static IP and port 25 are, but i'm going to assume that if i don't currently use them or am not aware that i do, then it won't affect me when i move to fibre in the near future?


Correct, if you don't know, you won't need it ;)

Mostly this would effect people hosting a mail server or similar.


And it is oh... so... close... So it won't be a problem very soon.

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Reply # 872572 6-Aug-2013 11:18
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I loath this country and our third world network, live in Papakura, Cant get cable, cant get vdsl stuck on adls which as far as Im concerned is glorified dial up.
1km from the box Im connected to and still cant get vdsl at least.
Sorry to everyone , but I had to vent somewhere, I dont have / want sky as networks, linux etc is my hobby and I cant even do that properly with the 3rd world network we have ..


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Reply # 872576 6-Aug-2013 11:27
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bastetx: I loath this country and our third world network, live in Papakura, Cant get cable, cant get vdsl stuck on adls which as far as Im concerned is glorified dial up.
1km from the box Im connected to and still cant get vdsl at least.
Sorry to everyone , but I had to vent somewhere, I dont have / want sky as networks, linux etc is my hobby and I cant even do that properly with the 3rd world network we have ..




Pfff i'm on the same boat. 

I'm just on edge of Central city, Auckland. Can't get anything except ADSL2+ with lowered speeds. And it's cuts my hobby as well :(  

That happens everywhere, and it's sad. 






Sorry about my English guys :>

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  Reply # 872586 6-Aug-2013 11:44
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bastetx: I loath this country and our third world network, live in Papakura, Cant get cable, cant get vdsl stuck on adls which as far as Im concerned is glorified dial up.
1km from the box Im connected to and still cant get vdsl at least.
Sorry to everyone , but I had to vent somewhere, I dont have / want sky as networks, linux etc is my hobby and I cant even do that properly with the 3rd world network we have ..



Not sure how you determine that the country has a third world network, I get VDSL ok. VDSL2 doesn't magically have worse range because we're in NZ. Have you actually been to a third world country and tried to get internet access - you really think they all have ADSL2+ like you're getting? Have you been to any other country, and tried to get it on the outskirts of a population area? New Zealand is harder to service, because of our lower population density than many places, and they do a damn good job considering. Yes, it's frustrating when you can't get the best, I'd love to have fibre, but I can't get it (yet.. I'm sure it's coming some day), but I don't for a minute think that it's some indication that NZ's infrastructure is third-world, it's simply a reality of living in a relatively small, sparsely-populated country that there are technical and financial boundaries to what is practical to achieve.




Windows 7 x64 // i5-3570K // 16GB DDR3-1600 // GTX660Ti 2GB // Samsung 830 120GB SSD // OCZ Agility4 120GB SSD // Samsung U28D590D @ 3840x2160 & Asus PB278Q @ 2560x1440
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