Another VDSL help thread!

Forums › Spark New Zealand (including Skinny and BigPipe) › Another VDSL help thread!

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Tel69
261 posts

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#895669 14-Sep-2013 19:04

Yyrael:
The tech should be installing Cat5 from the ETP to the jackpoint that is to have the splitter as part of his job description... At any rate as has been said if it doesn't work you won't be charged for it and with an attenuation near 10dB its very very borderline. Usually Chorus will say no to anything over 10dB immediately.

Actually the Chorus guy who did mine said he had pretty much said "can't be done without spending a lot more" for that exact reason multiple times. Getting the CAT-5 to where the modem actually is. The $99 install quoted on the website I'd say is for a basic install, to demarcation point and install the splitter.

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Lou1983

34 posts

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#895927 15-Sep-2013 16:06

Have definitely been charged the $99 installation fee.
Was told that I had to pay that regardless as they have done work.
Also, I have decided to stay on the VDSL in hopes that fibre is released in the next 12 months as the terms state that I can upgrade for free within that time.
Given the price is the same as ADSL2 and I'm not experiencing any problems I didnt see the point in changing back.
I'm just a little annoyed that I have 2 months worth of bills plus installation fee's and now that our sky is separate to our phone bill we had to make an unexpected month of that in advance as well.

I should probably mention that when the tech came out last he tested the speeds with my router at the pillar box, the cabinet and the exchange.
The exchange was on the upside of 60mbps while it dropped to 40mbps at the cabinet. Then to a dismal 15.5mbps at the pillar.

Hiamie

354 posts

Ultimate Geek

#895953 15-Sep-2013 17:03

I had Telecom VDSL installed last week. I am in Parnell Auckland.

It seems that my download attenuation (14.9dB) is well above the 10.8dB MAX allowed mentioned in this thread, but my actual speedtest speed is quite respectable at about 34Mb/s. I put the figure of 14.9dB as given by my router as my download line attenuation into the calculator DAYLO mentioned in this thread, and got a calculated speed of 34Mb/s - precisely what I get in practice!

Here are the results from taken from the Telecom supplied Technicolor TG589vn v2 wireless router...

DSL Connection
Link Information

Uptime: 0 days, 1:54:53

DSL Type: ITU-T G.993.2

Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 10,352 / 37,427

Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [B/B]: 0 / 0

Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 429496728.1 / 13.5

Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 27.7 / 14.9

SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 15.5 / 12.2

System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----

Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / IKNS

Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Link (Remote): -

Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 4 / 0

FEC Errors (Up/Down): 88 / 3,835

CRC Errors (Up/Down): 1 / 13

HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 69

It seems to me that attenuation over 10.8dB can be fine. I am happy with my speeds.

Chorus installed a line splitter (NOT a ADSL filter) in my kitchen, and I have my router connected using about 4 meters on standard phone line extension cable. The line from the street is connected to the kitchen jackpoint (the only jackpoint connected) by ordinary 3 pair phone wire originally put into the house about 25 years ago.

So, it seems to me that using a few meters of ordinary 3 pair phone cable, and using 4 meters of standard phone extention cable, along with a total download attenuation of almost 15dB still results in good speeds.

Don't know if any of this helps, but it seems the cables you are using aren't the total problem - at least not in my eyes.

Lou1983

34 posts

Geek

#895970 15-Sep-2013 17:31

Thanks for that.
Not sure if you read the entire thread but it has been determined that the extension under my house isn't the main cause.
The speeds and attenuation are similar at the pillar. Maybe a fraction of a mbps higher at the pillar but fairly close anyway.
The loss of speed and increase in noise is between the pillar and the cabinet. Most likely due to the congestion and distance.
The second tech that came out worked the distance to be at 1.4km including the house wiring to my router where as the first tech
told me it was only at 1.1km

And my attenuation was more than double yours also.

Dairusire

294 posts

Ultimate Geek

#896185 16-Sep-2013 09:10

Okay, lets get this straight. For you to get onto VDSL you need to have a attenuation of LESS than 10.8 on ADSL2+. Not what you get on VDSL. It's the 10.8 minimum on ADSL2+ that is the decider, not your attenuation after you get on VDSL.

Hiamie

354 posts

Ultimate Geek

#896201 16-Sep-2013 09:33

Dairusire: Okay, lets get this straight. For you to get onto VDSL you need to have a attenuation of LESS than 10.8 on ADSL2+. Not what you get on VDSL. It's the 10.8 minimum on ADSL2+ that is the decider, not your attenuation after you get on VDSL.

Thanks for clearing that up, I didn't know there was a difference :)

Dairusire

294 posts

Ultimate Geek

#896202 16-Sep-2013 09:39

Not a problem. Yeah there is actually a pretty big difference. Mainly because your using 'more' frequencies than ADSL your attenuation will go up on VDSL, thats why they use ADSL as a 'baseline' for VDSL.

Yyrael

222 posts

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#896345 16-Sep-2013 13:32

Tel69:
Yyrael:
The tech should be installing Cat5 from the ETP to the jackpoint that is to have the splitter as part of his job description... At any rate as has been said if it doesn't work you won't be charged for it and with an attenuation near 10dB its very very borderline. Usually Chorus will say no to anything over 10dB immediately.

Actually the Chorus guy who did mine said he had pretty much said "can't be done without spending a lot more" for that exact reason multiple times. Getting the CAT-5 to where the modem actually is. The $99 install quoted on the website I'd say is for a basic install, to demarcation point and install the splitter.

The $99 install includes Cat5 being run from the ETP to the JP. It's part of the request from Telecom, my VDSL install had it done at no extra cost to me. There is only one type of VDSL install that we do, be a bit strange to have a basic and advanced install haha

Inphinity

2780 posts

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#896353 16-Sep-2013 13:36

Yyrael:
The $99 install includes Cat5 being run from the ETP to the JP. It's part of the request from Telecom, my VDSL install had it done at no extra cost to me. There is only one type of VDSL install that we do, be a bit strange to have a basic and advanced install haha

Well, the Chorus techs seem to interpret it as "as long as VDSL works at a jackpoint, who cares what the cable is". Not a big deal, but they're just reusing whatever existing cable there is in many cases. If they're supposed to be re-running it as cat5 even when there's, say, existing cat3 to a jackpoint, that is being skipped in quite a few cases. I can't see that it would make much difference though?

Yyrael

222 posts

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#896358 16-Sep-2013 13:42

Inphinity:
Yyrael:
The $99 install includes Cat5 being run from the ETP to the JP. It's part of the request from Telecom, my VDSL install had it done at no extra cost to me. There is only one type of VDSL install that we do, be a bit strange to have a basic and advanced install haha

Well, the Chorus techs seem to interpret it as "as long as VDSL works at a jackpoint, who cares what the cable is". Not a big deal, but they're just reusing whatever existing cable there is in many cases. If they're supposed to be re-running it as cat5 even when there's, say, existing cat3 to a jackpoint, that is being skipped in quite a few cases. I can't see that it would make much difference though?

It's not a huge deal but they should be installing it as part of the VDSL set up, its part of the job and I'm hearing all to much that they aren't. Ideally it means that we can treat the internal wiring as a non-issue when trouble shooting and it means the service is working at its best possible state for the end user.

summmu

13 posts

Geek

#896433 16-Sep-2013 17:38

Hi Guys,

got VDSL installed today and below are my stats from the modem

Link Information

Uptime: 0 days, 1:44:38
DSL Type: ITU-T G.993.2
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 10,354 / 19,978
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [B/B]: 0 / 0
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 7.8 / 13.5
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 41.5 / 18.1
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 13.2 / 11.6
System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----
Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / IKNS
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 39 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 25 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): -
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 57 / 1
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 4 / 54,874
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 13
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 312

Dont know what the above numbers but are they any good?

On ADSL I was getting 11 mbps down and 900 kbps up.

The chorus technician installed a new splitter but used the existing wiring.

Yyrael

222 posts

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#896454 16-Sep-2013 18:05

summmu: Hi Guys,

got VDSL installed today and below are my stats from the modem

Link Information

Uptime: 0 days, 1:44:38
DSL Type: ITU-T G.993.2
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 10,354 / 19,978
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [B/B]: 0 / 0
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 7.8 / 13.5
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 41.5 / 18.1
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 13.2 / 11.6
System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----
Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / IKNS
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 39 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 25 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): -
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 57 / 1
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 4 / 54,874
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 13
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 312

Dont know what the above numbers but are they any good?

On ADSL I was getting 11 mbps down and 900 kbps up.

The chorus technician installed a new splitter but used the existing wiring.

Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 10,354 / 19,978 approximately converts to a down speed of 19.5 mbps and upload of 10.1 mbps. Not a bad jump ^_^

hio77

'That VDSL Cat'
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#896504 16-Sep-2013 19:28

Yyrael:
Inphinity:
Yyrael:
The $99 install includes Cat5 being run from the ETP to the JP. It's part of the request from Telecom, my VDSL install had it done at no extra cost to me. There is only one type of VDSL install that we do, be a bit strange to have a basic and advanced install haha

Well, the Chorus techs seem to interpret it as "as long as VDSL works at a jackpoint, who cares what the cable is". Not a big deal, but they're just reusing whatever existing cable there is in many cases. If they're supposed to be re-running it as cat5 even when there's, say, existing cat3 to a jackpoint, that is being skipped in quite a few cases. I can't see that it would make much difference though?

It's not a huge deal but they should be installing it as part of the VDSL set up, its part of the job and I'm hearing all to much that they aren't. Ideally it means that we can treat the internal wiring as a non-issue when trouble shooting and it means the service is working at its best possible state for the end user.

last time i had a tech installing a spitter, they would try their absolute best to reuse what they can.

one would think, if the idea is to essentially mark the internal wiring as in good condition, being the assumption after chorus have done their job, then they should be doing it to the standard set.

i figure it comes down to a question of feasibility for a quick install?

got a vdsl install coming up when i move this weekend, will have keep an eye out to make sure they actually run some fresh cat5 (existing cat3 doesnt look the best condition..)

#include <std_disclaimer>

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

Daylo

123 posts

Master Geek

#896550 16-Sep-2013 20:30

Reading the last few posts, I must be lucky. As said previously, on ADSL2+ I had 12.3dB down for attenuation (based on modem stats, not a Telecom tool. So is this different?), so was outside the limit as has been described (which was news to me until I read it here). They came & installed. And it's on day 11 as of today.

Stats (as of right now). Also now looks like DLM-1 to me

Modem state: up
Up time (Days hh:mm:ss): 0 days, 16:10:38
xDSL Standard: ITU-T G.993.2
Channel Mode: Interleaved

Number of reset: 3

Chipset Vendor info (G.994.1): Local Remote
Country code: B500 B500
ID: BDCM BDCM
Specific: 0000 A3D3

System Vendor info (showtime): Local Remote
Country code: 0F00 0000
ID: TMMB ----
Specific: 3C61 0000

Bearers generic info DS US
Payload rate [Kbps]: 37618 10357
Attenuation [dB]: 14.5 30.5
Margins [dB]: 12.3 21.8
Output power [dBm]: 18.6 5.5

Number of bearers: 1
Bearer 0 DS US
INP [DMT symbols]: 0.00 0.00
Delay [ms]: 0.00 0.00
Depth []: 1 0.00
R: 0 0

matisyahu

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#896666 17-Sep-2013 02:29

HowickDota: Really strange they would put you on VDSL with that sort of distance/attenuation, it's way too high, if I'm not mistaken the cut off point is supposed to be 10.8db downstream attenuation.

At that sort of distance you aren't gonna see any improvement by using VDSL, not sure what else you can do.

*shrugs* I guess they don't have a hard number they go by given that here are my stats:

I'd be tempted to check out to see how much of the issues relate to the wiring in the house vs. the street.

"When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called 'the People's Stick'"

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